Alrighty you fiends!  ChaseHD/Cidelfus has updated their super spreadsheet with the frame data for the newest characters!

Update 3 (a few corrections and a note about dlc business practices)

Vice and Mature don’t have invincible anti airs, therefore they are automatically mid. That’s my first impression. And then I suddenly remember Ralf, but he was top tier because of fast and huge hitboxes with easy and high damage combos. Vice and Mature don’t have that, I guess that’s a good thing.

For the legacy player, Vice and Mature have ‘annoying’ new timings and limits: why would anyone remove Mature’s light rekkas? Why would you not make the timing and buffer consistent for Vice’s combos? Disclaimer, I’m old. I hope it makes the younger crowd interested and gives them a little challenge. Me, I’m just annoyed at having a tight window to climax after Vice’s level 1 and her aerial snake arm needs quick cancelling and I’m supposed to input all this while playing someone with 100ms and streaming on 3 platforms? Yeah no, but don’t worry about me, just enjoy scraping people’s faces off, Mature’s aerial assault is the same and while she has no defense, her attack looks great, just need to get used to the new rekkas, so that it will feel great, too.

I think it’s clear that one way to make sure a character is not overpowered is to freeze them in place after a move. It prevents an easy rushdown and gives the opponent time to breathe. It’s also extremely frustrating for the attacker. I was screaming at the screen, shouting at Vice to move. In an attempt to balance the game, KOF has lost some fluidity and that’s not good, I would say, on offense, but of course, on defence, I would literally say, thank goodness.

The throw priority in the game also reduces Vice’s attack on wake up, but she does have a fully invincible ex grab to punish mashers… let’s not talk about throw priority any more… it’s going to be a sore point for KOFXV.

So, are Mature and Vice worth the price?  It’s not an obvious answer.  They have intros, idle animations; Vice’s climax is perhaps one of the best in the game and Mature has a side swap only on hit, while Chris just zips around with no restraint (why?). If you’re fans of these two harbingers of death, or just want to support KOF, I think you won’t be disappointed, however they don’t seem extremely strong…

While they don’t have intros with Rugal and the orochi clan (update, in end quotes, they acknowledge and interact with perhaps everyone), they’ve got their intro with each other and that guy, plus a special ending, which is very nice.  It is interesting that they seem like fair characters, well balanced, but there is always the debate that DLC should be strong, otherwise there is no interest for the hardcore players, who arguably make up a good portion of the people still playing the game.  If I were SNK, I would release them broken, and then nerf them later, but perhaps that is a borderline illegal/unethical business practice!

As usual, SNK confounds with their decisions, when we (the fans) just wanted the recycled XIV characters, what we actually got was polished characters with new new faces, hair, clothing, new combos, climaxes… like, what? The only thing recycled was the skeletons and some animations, if they were even that easy to port into the UE engine. Why is SNK working so hard for us remaining fans? It’s crazy, and it shows that bringing in old characters is no basic recycle job, at least, they wouldn’t do it simply like that.

Nobody seems to have found anything really broken, and while Mature’s jump CD is very good, her amazing crossup barely combos into anything. What’s more worrying is the new patch, with the new balance changes, but worrying is a good way to wake up the scene. It’s still early days, but I certainly didn’t see any nerfs for Rock Howard, Isla and Shun’Ei lollllll, no surprises there.  I do, however, see more Billy Kane users…

The netcode doesn’t seem to have been improved. It’s still the best netcode (visa vie connections) but while I managed to leave a lobby without crashing it, another lobby simply froze after a match. What seems to be consistent is when we have a guest with a high ping, something bad will happen. I really have no idea how this netcode works but it baffles me that just having someone entering the lobby can degrade the experience of everyone else.

Well, we’ll keep playing! Early days…

Scrap notes for later:

Vice
Safe hyper jump on hcf P throw .
After hcbf jump then hop
After hcb p qcf p NOTHING
Any hcb B will cancel into grab super

After hcb p do hcb K!?!
After hcb f do hcb lp and roll?

Cr B, A A hcb PP, hcb P qcf P 213
D fwd A QM D fwd A hcb A qcf x2 P climax 657 works on mid

After hcb LK eh.. Setups? Safe jump?

Hcb HK juggle but then pushback
Hcb KK fast juggle 222 damage add super 375 hmmm sdm 511
hcb KK > qcb LP, qcf LP xx qcfx2 P 375
hcb KK > qcb LP, qcf LP xx qcfx2 PP 511 2.5 bars? OK!
hcb KK > qcb PP >> qcb LP, qcf LP xx qcfx2 P 436
hcb KK > qcb PP >> qcb LP, qcf LP xx qcfx2 PP 564 omg not worth it

All this was before I noticed that hcb KK is not a good anti air at all. Shame really.

HKx2 QM hcb HK hcf LK hcbx2 K climax 663 anchor only booooo

HK, fwd LP
qcb PP >> qcb LP, qcf LP xx qcfx2 PP 545
> qcb LP, qcf LP xx qcfx2 PP 513

Mature: qcb A WTF….