Best Super, Best Battery Move

[geist]

vanessa's x2+P super

Damage(when done alone/in combo.): Both exellent! bread and butter combo does just over half from 100% I believe

Speed: not sure on the frame #'s, but it's fast enough

Invincibility: relatively none ;_; but it's plenty fast anyways

Lag: this is where it gets hurt...if you miss the super in the B&B combo, you can still be punished...and it's not safe on block

Ease of comboing into it: completely verifieble from any of her combos. The combos themselves are semi-difficult, but that doesn't really matter.

Dream Cancelable or not: yes...comboable to AND from the LDM I believe...using this as an LDM ender uses no stock, but obviously gets a lot of damage reduction from the LDM

special properties: EXTREMELY usefull as a QS combo starter...the next character has plenty of time to start the combo. It also grounds the opponent automatically, which is a good thing in most cases
Juggle anywhere property


Eiji's +P is great for batter builder IMO...not nearly as good as gato, but still great. spammable, cancellable from C, safe on block, decent range, 2hit combo from Counter hit, and FAST


[/b]

[Slapper Joe]

I am sort of suprised no-one has mentioned the second best meter builder in the game, Kim. Block, wiff or hit his entire special move set gains stupid amounts of meter compared to the rest of the cast. Gato only has one move to really whore to gain meter. Kim can do whatever he wants and gets it only a tiny bit slower.

And I can't agree with the assumption of Gato having the best super in the game by default. Gai's Rush, Kensou's D Shinryu, Oswalds Moon Slash, Iori's 316, Eiji's fireball have to be up there. And then there is debatable stuff like Buster Wolf (even with crap damage), Many Many Torpedoes, the Stomp, etc.

[Invincible Duo]

for supers i like to nominate

gato: punch and kick super.
the punch super is near instant, and 95% safe if blocked. also all hits will connect unlike in 2k3.
the kick super because it juggles off anything and really good anti air


jazu: flame tunnel super
invincible at startup, deals a lot of damage, safe if blocked, chips a lot, and
the hitbox extends to his back


eiji: fireball super
the fastest fireball super in the game. opponent will think twice before
throwing any fireballs at him

adel: lk genocide cutter
near instant, invincible, eats up fireballs, huge hit area

malin: punch super
huge damage, can be used as anti air, anti fireball

K': punch super
semi safe if blocked, huge damage on counterhit

silver: stomp super
guard crushes on block, huge damage, can be a bit hard to avoid.

the best batteries are gato and eiji by far.

eijis +p and +p builds and absurd amount of meter quickly and safely like gatos +k,lp and +k,lk

[Tel]

Shen Woo Punch (Qcfx2 Punch)

Invincibility: I've heard that A version gives lower body invincibility and C versions gives upper body, but I've not seen concrete proof or statements to back this up. Besides, I have never tried to perform this DM against fireballs...

Shen's C version is excellent for going past projectiles. I whore it like nobody's business when fighting Magaki, and more often than not, I score Counter hits.

DM rating Adel's Genocide Cutter (B) Version

Damage Good damage to very good on CH. Only does one hit on its own now, so unlike 2k3, hitting normally at any distance will still do the same damage, which is a good thing. Just as long as you hit, that's all that's required.

Speed Fast enough to use as a twitch move or on wakeup, that's for sure.

Safety Puts Adel at a safe distance if blocked. Can't be reversed and eats fireballs including Eiji and Ryo's DMs for breakfast. Youre' most likely only going to get punished if you whiff it, and if do so, you obviously deserve whatever's coming at you. Jump and projectile property makes him immune to both low attacks and throws, so you can't sweep him out of it. Has no invincibility, but at the worst you should trade hits with this baby. Hitbox is so damned huge that it can nail hoppers, jumpers, people trying to roll past Adel or anyone attempting a cross-up. The move hits right from the start and the hit duration remains until Adel's finished kicking, and he lands less than a second later with a slight recovery delay after. Nevertheless, it's virtually impossible to punish this move if it's blocked without using stocks, and even if he whiffs it, it's only punishable if opponent managed to roll out of it at the start and land next to Adel.

Combo capability Easy to combo into, and can be linked from light attacks. Has no DC or QS use, but thank goodness for that.

[Makashi_Menace]

Shen's C version is excellent for going past projectiles. I whore it like nobody's business when fighting Magaki, and more often than not, I score Counter hits.

What about ground projectiles like Iori/Terry's?

Does the C version go through those too, or do I have to use A version instead?

Thanks.

[SonicTempest]

C version has upper body invincibility, A has lower body invincibility, so I suppose you would need to use the A version.
Never really tried it myself, though.

[Tel]

C version has upper body invincibility, A has lower body invincibility, so I suppose you would need to use the A version.
Never really tried it myself, though.

Yup, that's about right. You use the A version against floor-level projectiles. I don't know about Kasumi's DM though: I haven't been that stupid as to try to launch it against that DM.

[roghzx]

what about B.Jenet +D -> d.D as a battery move?

it's pretty safe and i think taht it's ok to build meter

[J]-[UN]

Don't forget Terry's power charge (B version, stop on 2nd hit if blocked)....that thing gives you frame advantage when blocked too, plus its QSable if it hits

[Empyrian]

Adel's LDM, Heat Drive, Shingo's ranbu DM and Jyazu's DMs.

These 4 have hit-boxes behind them too.

Implications for the first 2 are more profound though.