Syo Hayate

[AcidicEnema]

In general, I think the rule is this:

+C (close) and f+C (close) both set up juggles if they hit. Hence, +C (close)> f+C (close)> anything will work in a quick shift (don't just work off Gai, afaik. Tried from Kula and it worked too).

Its when it hits against a jumping opponent, that the +C> f+C somehow doesn't work. Now, *that* is the anomaly. I say this, because off a jumping opponent (non counter), +C> anything else will juggle. Ditto f+C.

The other exception, of course being the +K, which I now believe basically lives by the rule- will not touch a juggled opponent, period, no matter what airborne state he's in.

- Flavour of the day is now forward hop B/C as an anti-air. Good snap kick properties, and a free LDM if it connects.

[Slapper Joe]

If it wasn't for that gawd awful ACE Sho could very well be the best QS ender in the game.

the four D's into:
C if it is a possible stun (then LDM if not)
E if it will be a stun
close f+C, qcf+C if the spacing is just right. Even if it doesn't stun it can't be recovered from and gives a good cross-up opportunity.

Now after there is a stun.
Homerang is the most consistantly damaging DM in the game.* And it can't be saving shifted from.
qcb+C can't be SSed (the Homerang SC doesn't do anymore damage than by itself so there isn't much point to it.)
qcb+K can't be SSed, so bounce them again into poke -> LDM. Or push into corner for qcb+k, qcb+K, E/dp+D/qcb+C->C
close C/D (saving shift) b+C->multirang works a charm.
Or just a poke into multirang to catch the person coming in

Or of course the best saving shift counter, a delayed Quick Shift (with morph, if availiable.)

*Rush has it beat, but that df is too picky to be really considered consistant.

[dobiqwolf]

This one is particularly interesting (in corner):
Gai: hop B, close D, f+D, f, b, ->QS a.k.a usual stuff.
Syo: land, +C(reset), f+C(flip reset), +K(hit), (air)qcb+K(hit), hLDM

The end sequence can be pretty much replaced by anything (qcb+C, homerang won't work though.) The only other situation the +C, f+C works is on counter against a jumper in corner so why it works in a QS is anyone's guess.

is sho +C>f+C ahe to be the close animation or the far one?

[AcidicEnema]

Hayate's midscreen combo with the highest stun , afaik, is this: j.D> d.B> s.D> +k (hit)> +K (whiff)> walk forward 1/4 of a step> s.D (just after opponent passes you).

His D buttons do as much stun as his C buttons+ 1 light attack.


More mid-screen 1 skill full stun combos:

(Oswald) j.C> s.D> +A> +C> (QS Hayate) Do above combo. Ace it for teh win.

(Malin) j.C> s.D> f+B> +B (2 hits)> (QS Hayate) Do above combo.

(Eliz) j.D (deep)> s.C (2 hits)> f+B> f+A> (QS Hayate) Do above combo without d.B.

(Duolon) j.C (cross up)> d.A> +A> f+B> +C> d.A> +A> f+B> +C> (QS Hayate) Do above combo.> Do another Duolon double palm (no need to cross up this time since his back is turned) into rekka after dizzy for a 95% no stock, 1 skill, combo.

Its really annoying that the +K misses against crouchers. What's the highest dizzy that Hayate can get against crouchers? I'm thinking j.D> s.D> f+C> A Boomerang. Its still more stun than half the cast can manage on a BnB, but its nothing special.

On another note, (blocked) j.D> (walk forward 1/2 step> s.D> f+C> +A has the opponent in danger of guard crush after 2 reps. Next heavy attack will crush most opponents. Ghetto Malin.

[Slapper Joe]

is sho df+C>f+C ahe to be the close animation or the far one?

In and out of the corner it has to be the close ones.

The (close)df/f+C, qcf+C ender will do more stun than close D. But they are all too unreliable. I would probably just recommend sticking to the C ender unless you need that little bit more. Certain characters are easier to get the close hit on as well so that should be taken into account.

Neat little kara&taunt cancel. Throw a boomerang and while it is out taunt. On catching do a homerang. You can generic grab the frame after the superflash. That is a one-frame grab right there.

Edit: Actually I think it's the throw being SCed (without SC text) yet still coming out. Would make sense considering the taunt bugs.

[AcidicEnema]

+C and f+C from far can't be cancelled by specials...

The anal detection on activating close attacks in this game really screws up some characters. Hayate's +C would be as awesome as Oswald's +A, if only you could manually vary between the close and far versions. Likewise Duolon's defence would be *so* much better if he could activate that awesome close stand D at will.

[AcidicEnema]

I am beginning to believe quite firmly that in order to maximise his potential, Hayate must be leader and must preferably in a team with at least a decent battery/stunner on point.

With a stunner on point, you get a very strong opening game gambit (go for the 1 skill stock stun).

With meter and leader, Hayate gets the best of both worlds of Kula and Kim leader- a fast, no charge LDM that gets juggled off all sorts of safe angles (jump/hop B/D air pokes/ random QS set ups) and an LDM that gets juggled off a relatively safe poke move for no skill stocks.

With LDM in tow, Hayate can afford to zone with boomers, stand B, dive punches and hopping pokes- all relatively safe angles which keep him from being open to combos, and allow him to juggle to LDM. Akin to Gatos that do random hop D> Kick Super> Dream Cancel or Kims that zone with jump C> LDM.

Out of KGO, I'm quite comfortable having Hayate on point against K and G. Oswald is the toughest fight, because his stupid hop/jump CD allows him to penetrate Hayate's zone at a low risk, and beats Ballerina spin to boot. I'm beginning to think that Hayate's best chance in this fight is to zone full screen (still your advantage since you gain meter off blocked boomers, but he can't build meter) until you get 2 skill stocks, then go on the offence, with a saving shift in tow.

IMO, the best option off a connected b+C is a QS (if you don't think he's going to saving shift. With 2 skill stocks, you can easily get a stun off a b+C.

[AcidicEnema]

Unlike High LDM, Low LDM actually has a fair bit of start up invulnerability. Against meaty d.Bs, Low LDM will consistently win out. Results against meaty jump attacks are more mixed though, since the invulnerability doesn't last that long. It works sometimes, since like all crouching kicks in KOF, it can dodge the jump attack, and hit them as they land, but its far from consistent.

I think Low LDM also scales better against low life opponents cause it does much more hits.

[Slapper Joe]

I think you will find it is the actual crouching kick animation that is invulnerable. From right outside 1-character range, Griffon can still c/s.A the dash on reaction to the super flash like he can most LDMs.

[J]-[UN]

Met AcidicEnema in sgwang today Yea his Hayate is good~

Apparently his jumpB can beat Kasumi's LDM if it hits as a crossup for some reason...first time I've seen anything beat a LDM counter.... I tried it on a friend later on after AE left and it could consistently work

[AcidicEnema]

Heh, you're too kind. J]-[UN was beating my scrubby ass down with random 3, and I had to play my hardest with 3 chosen characters to scrape a few wins. Respect Drop me a msg if you're ever coming south of the Causeway, eh?

Anyway, I guess I didn't notice about the Kasumi LDM thing, cause of the lack of super flash and I wasn't watching your meter. Really wierd. I guess Hayate really is a buggy character. There was once I could've *sworn* that I cancelled the air zoom animation with a hop B, resulting in a zoom hop B, but I haven't been able to replicate it since. Meh.

[Empyrian]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FSoDoRWx2i0

[Slapper Joe]

I actually have a few variants of this on a vid I'm working on. I'd given up on it actually being 'infinite' and was using it purely for stun. Guess I have to go back to the drawing board.

[Dark_Chaotix]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FSoDoRWx2i0

Nice. Dont use Sho very much, but nice addition.

[AcidicEnema]

Funnily enough, I can get a few reps using +C instead of f+C, but I can only get 1 rep at most using f+C. It *is* d+A for the first dive and d+C for the subsequent dives, isn't it?

Bleah. Hayate- even when he has an infinity, he can't kill an opponent with it (and of course the spacing is so specific its in no way viable in a match).