Ryo Sakazaki (XI)

Strats, combos, technical discussion.
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Post by Derrace » Wed Apr 19, 2006 05:37

ShadowSonic wrote:The latest Henvoke vids show that after a QS in, Ryo can do QCB+C (juggle), followed by Zanretsuken as a finisher.
i think there were times that guy missed... heh.. anyway, I think it's possible to QS into Gato/Vanessa after the Zanretsuken for nasty damage.

I think as we discover more viable juggle QS combos, we are going to get endless loops of chains.. with the skill stock being a limiting factor... just wondering if there's any combo that can get around that, doing combos that can gives you enough time for a 3rd Skill stock would be uber....

Maybe involving vannessa or gato multiple air hits combos or something...
some food for thought =)

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Post by Franz Bonaparta » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:54

Derrick wrote:okie, suppose i am to parry Iori's Qcf A X 3. Do I press, forward B, first hit, then press B on the second hit, and B on the 3rd hit, or forward B on the 3rd hit?

So he would just glow after the first parry?

actually, i think it would make more sense if it was, forward B, on first hit press B, forward B again, and press B again on 2nd hit, forward B for the last time and B on the 3rd hit.

if it makes your next move invincible after the first parry, then B. shouldnt one just do a DP A when he starts glowing after the first parry, as to parrying the whole thingy?
U mean Qcb A X 3? I usually do dp+c after parrying an attack, I dunno Ive been doing it since KOF 99, its SCable I guess?? Ryo's Hop D is a whore true, but its not as instant overhead as say Kula's hop A!

So Ryo's qcb+C has juggling properties now? Can they be comboed off normals just like NGBC? No wait,only qcb+A is comboable right?

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Post by Iie-Kyo » Wed Apr 19, 2006 20:58

Derrick wrote:okie, suppose i am to parry Iori's Qcf A X 3. Do I press, forward B, first hit, then press B on the second hit, and B on the 3rd hit, or forward B on the 3rd hit?

So he would just glow after the first parry?

actually, i think it would make more sense if it was, forward B, on first hit press B, forward B again, and press B again on 2nd hit, forward B for the last time and B on the 3rd hit.

if it makes your next move invincible after the first parry, then B. shouldnt one just do a DP A when he starts glowing after the first parry, as to parrying the whole thingy?
Something like f + B on first hit, B to give yourself invincibility, then f + B to cancel the original f + B animation into another f + B and so on and so forth.

Obviously if you're trying to be practical, you'd just do a f + B, hit B, then dp + A, but the ability to do a Daigo Umehara vs. Justin Wong Ken vs. Chun Li parry-all-hits-of-Chun-Li's-super-to-take-the-match capability is there. My friend managed to parry all the hits of another friend's King's LDM.

I gotta try it a bit more myself. I suggest finding some friendly players and practicing it, cos that's what I'm gonna do.

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Post by Derrace » Thu Apr 20, 2006 03:07

Iie-Kyo wrote:
Derrick wrote:okie, suppose i am to parry Iori's Qcf A X 3. Do I press, forward B, first hit, then press B on the second hit, and B on the 3rd hit, or forward B on the 3rd hit?

So he would just glow after the first parry?

actually, i think it would make more sense if it was, forward B, on first hit press B, forward B again, and press B again on 2nd hit, forward B for the last time and B on the 3rd hit.

if it makes your next move invincible after the first parry, then B. shouldnt one just do a DP A when he starts glowing after the first parry, as to parrying the whole thingy?
Something like f + B on first hit, B to give yourself invincibility, then f + B to cancel the original f + B animation into another f + B and so on and so forth.

Obviously if you're trying to be practical, you'd just do a f + B, hit B, then dp + A, but the ability to do a Daigo Umehara vs. Justin Wong Ken vs. Chun Li parry-all-hits-of-Chun-Li's-super-to-take-the-match capability is there. My friend managed to parry all the hits of another friend's King's LDM.

I gotta try it a bit more myself. I suggest finding some friendly players and practicing it, cos that's what I'm gonna do.
lol@Daigo thingy... lol looks like everyone caught that video clip...

I did some testing yesterday, I think it's foward B, on contact, press forward B again. I was testing this with a friend yesterday.. all I did was press forward B, block forward B again...

but in actual fact, all i was doing was holding down forward, and press B, for the first parry, a B on each contact. and another B to make the parry come out again. I think it's easier just holding the forward button... if you want to parry low, just hold df instead.

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Post by Violent Ryo » Fri Apr 21, 2006 07:53

Man, XI keeps getting better and better.

Playmore even took up an issue with Ryo that was pretty much looked over.

Before, Ryo's parries were only good against one or two hit attacks (more hits if they were no delay inthe attacks).

Ryo would just get hit by the upcoming hits because parry would end.

Now, you can play Ryo as if he was in 3rd Strike. Awesome.

This will definately take practice, and I can only see myself perfecting this at home with the port.

That new juggle is very welcome. I wonder if you can connect LDM, DMs, or other specials after the qcb+P juggle...

@Ie-Kyo: I use a regular digital camcorder to record match vids, but most of the ones I have right now are old and not really that satisfied with.

Will definately make new ones inthe summer when I have a little time of work and school.

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Post by Derrace » Fri Apr 21, 2006 17:41

Okie, I tried to be funny today and tried to parry Ash's Fireball DM.

Only managed to Parry like 4-5hits of the slow fireball.. before getting hit by the rest... didnt notice if I was glowing, so I wasn't sure if I did it correctly.. but will try again if I have the chance.

I guess so far the main usefulness of this would be to parry:

King's LDM /doublestrike
Ash's Fireball DM.
Ryo's Hcb D (but you can already punish him if you block this normally)
Oswald's normal block damage combo?
Duck's Rambu DM.
Momoko/Gai Combo? but you have to guess up and down..
Kyo/Iori

I am sure there are many others.. but these are what I can think of for now. Also, I guess it's should be used against characters with otherwise safe block damage combos that have good recovery. Having said that, with most of the normal combos, the opponent can choose not to follow up.. I think the parry could be used to avoid taking block damage from a DM, trying to do a second parry after a user-controlled combo is just crazy. I would just parry the first hit and do a dp A.

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Post by dobiqwolf » Fri Apr 21, 2006 19:10

you should do a dp+C and if you have skill stock and dm stock super cancel in qcf,hcb+A

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Post by Violent Ryo » Fri Apr 21, 2006 19:44

Derrick wrote:Okie, I tried to be funny today and tried to parry Ash's Fireball DM.

Only managed to Parry like 4-5hits of the slow fireball.. before getting hit by the rest... didnt notice if I was glowing, so I wasn't sure if I did it correctly.. but will try again if I have the chance.

I guess so far the main usefulness of this would be to parry:

King's LDM /doublestrike
Ash's Fireball DM.
Ryo's Hcb D (but you can already punish him if you block this normally)
Oswald's normal block damage combo?
Duck's Rambu DM.
Momoko/Gai Combo? but you have to guess up and down..
Kyo/Iori

I would just parry the first hit and do a dp A.
I don't think you went into successive parries because one normal parry can stop 4-5 hits of a DM like that, as I pointed out above about moves that have hits without delay in them.

Parrys can be used against anything except grabs/throws of course.

They are just as effective against pokes, normals, etc etc as they are against specials or DMs or LDMs.

And there really is no point of just doing dp+A after a successful parry cuz that isn't enough damage to compensate for the risk of parrying.

If you are going to dp after a parry, do dp+C and then just input hcb+A for Ranbu DM SC or hcf+A for Haoh Ken DM SC or one qcf+E for LDM SC as dobiqwolf suggested.

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Post by Derrace » Sat Apr 22, 2006 02:11

Violent Ryo wrote:
Derrick wrote:Okie, I tried to be funny today and tried to parry Ash's Fireball DM.

Only managed to Parry like 4-5hits of the slow fireball.. before getting hit by the rest... didnt notice if I was glowing, so I wasn't sure if I did it correctly.. but will try again if I have the chance.

I guess so far the main usefulness of this would be to parry:

King's LDM /doublestrike
Ash's Fireball DM.
Ryo's Hcb D (but you can already punish him if you block this normally)
Oswald's normal block damage combo?
Duck's Rambu DM.
Momoko/Gai Combo? but you have to guess up and down..
Kyo/Iori

I would just parry the first hit and do a dp A.
I don't think you went into successive parries because one normal parry can stop 4-5 hits of a DM like that, as I pointed out above about moves that have hits without delay in them.

Parrys can be used against anything except grabs/throws of course.

They are just as effective against pokes, normals, etc etc as they are against specials or DMs or LDMs.

And there really is no point of just doing dp+A after a successful parry cuz that isn't enough damage to compensate for the risk of parrying.

If you are going to dp after a parry, do dp+C and then just input hcb+A for Ranbu DM SC or hcf+A for Haoh Ken DM SC or one qcf+E for LDM SC as dobiqwolf suggested.
yah, it's too risky parrying ground attacks, I have been using his parry move to parry flying attacks before landing a dp A since '02.

Thanks for the inputs regarding the shortcuts, but I normally input most DM normally with the exception of the hcb x 2 DMs.

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Post by Violent Ryo » Sat Apr 22, 2006 06:45

Actually, I feel its riskier parrying air attacks and the only safe thing to follow up with is dp+A, as the super cancels after parry will not connect against air attacks. In 2002, there is no point in parrying if you are only going to dp+A since in 2002, Ryo's dp+A is invincible and will eat most moves anyway making parry unnecessary if you only plan to dp+A afterwards. :|

Ground attacks should be parried most. As you can totally punish ground attacks by parrying/following up. LMAO

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Post by Iie-Kyo » Fri May 05, 2006 08:45

This is stuff I'm gonna throw in a Ryo FAQ to submit to GameFAQs, but I'd figure I might as well share it here since he needs some loving.

First of all, a lot of what I'm gonna be posting about is in regards to this old (but still true) article, namely trapping and getting Ryo's "sweet spot" right: The Art of War: Deception

Ryo is VERY good at dancing around this sweet spot position. As the article pointed out, his optimal range depends greatly upon who he's fighting, but generally you want to stay outside the range of most characters' dwn As and with concern to Clark, his UAB range. Against Kula, you will actually have to place yourself closer to where she can hit you with a far B or far C - far B is no big deal since all it does is create a hiccup within your mixup game, but be prepared to Psychic Shoryuken that shit if you see a far C being stuck out. Better Kula players can hit confirm off the far C and go into her gay LDM combo.

Against most everyone else, as I've said previously, his best place is slightly beyond a character width. Make ABSOLUTELY SURE that if your opponent rolls against you, that he rolls right in front of you. Remember that XI rolls are relatively short. Think of how short '99 slides were and you'll get the idea. You'll want to place yourself in a position where rolls are ineffective against Ryo, because a lot of Ryo's 1-character-width defensive zoning game can be broken with a well-placed roll.

At this distance, a majority of Ryo's weak button moves are VERY safe, and it also gives him room to randomly throw in his annoying yet effective command overhead and specials. You absolutely do not want ANY of his special moves to whiff. They are fairly punishable if they somehow miss the opponent.

Once you get within this spot, be willing to occasionally walk past it and into an offensive game. You will have to abuse Ryo's priority to shut down your opponent's attempts at stopping you. Play footsies with his far B, dwn B, far A. Stick out his incredibly fast CD/E button, do slow high jumps into his jump D, or low hops into his hop D. Tick throw like a bitch. Get in there, harass them, then do either a backdash hop or hop back into his optimal position.

And as always, Ryo is capable of entrapping the opponent because of his simple high priority and low lag moves. Case in point - his f + A. From my experience against expert players, this is one of THE most annoying things someone has to block, because this effectively forces a player to stand UP while Ryo is grounded (most of the time the only way to force someone to stand up is to jump at them). What's worse, unlike other characters' overhead moves, Ryo gets a decent momentum advantage whether this is blocked or not, especially if Ryo scores a knockdown and forces the opponent to eat a meaty overhead.

If you force the opponent to wake up into the tail end of the f + A, you can now start another high/low game simply by spamming another f + A, or tapping in a low B, which can then be mixed up with another low B or a f + A. Think it's easy to defend against? Try get hit by it. You either need to roll out (which Ryo can bait) or do a high priority or high invincibility move to get out of it (which Ryo can also bait).

Don't forget, any safe blocked pressure string can be followed up with his dp + A to stuff their attempts at punishing your supposedly punishable pressure string. If they've gotten smart and started baiting DP + As (i.e. you got them on the defensive "looking" for holes in your mixup game), this is when you begin advancing on them with hop Ds into another pressure string.

These are tactics I've been using since KoF 2k2, and they still apply now since Ryo's basic game hasn't changed. Much of Ryo's game was ruined in 2k3 (save for his twitch LDM), but now with the advent of XI, it's pretty much back to business for Ryo.

Hope this helps someone. I wish I had some easy means to record match vids at my arcade to show how exactly I play...

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Post by Tel » Fri May 05, 2006 14:40

It's kind of funny how everyone assumed Ryo's dp has invincibility simply because it had amazing priority. Having done plenty of testing, I can safely say Ryo's Kohou has NO INVINCIBILITY WHATSOEVER. If you don't believe me, try pulling it against a Haoh Sho Koh Ken.

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Post by Iie-Kyo » Fri May 05, 2006 21:59

Tel wrote:It's kind of funny how everyone assumed Ryo's dp has invincibility simply because it had amazing priority. Having done plenty of testing, I can safely say Ryo's Kohou has NO INVINCIBILITY WHATSOEVER. If you don't believe me, try pulling it against a Haoh Sho Koh Ken.
You see, in 2k2, it had a small bit of mid to UPPER startup invincibility. It allowed Ryo to pass through a lot of stuff most dps wouldn't. From my experiences with using the A version Shoryuken, obviously you wouldn't want to use it against a thrown DM fireball. I also figured out that the invincibility kinda comes from it starting ULTRA low. Ryo's hitbox is actually towards the ground when he does it. That's why if you stick a VERY meaty crouch D attack (we're talking Iori's crouch D here) it'll end up trading with it. Because it starts so low, obviously jump ins will lose against it, and unless you perfectly time a dwn B to be right on Ryo as he does the dp + A, even low attacks will lose because of how quickly the hitbox of the dp + A "appears".

So yeah, it's practically invincible. Extreme cases beat the priority and uberness of the 2k2/Neowave dp + A, but most of the time it beats everything and the kitchen sink.

I've been unable to figure out how Ryo's dp + A and C hit in XI. The priority for these seems relatively inconsistent...

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Post by dobiqwolf » Fri May 05, 2006 22:16

in XI the dpC is more like the A version in 2k2 and the second hit is slow and suck up the opponent so u got plenty of time to SC.
i use the C version to punish pokes so i can SC and to punish jump as wall.(never SC if the opponent have been hit in the air))

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Post by AcidicEnema » Fri May 05, 2006 22:32

Yeh. In general, I use dp+A against pokes/d.Bs and dp+C against jumps. Seems to work fine, though DP+C trades more often than I would like.

DP+C> SC against air can work on a 'Counter', and I've gotten DP+C>LDM against jumping opponents quite a few times. It takes more than a bit of skill to consistently roll the joystick for the SC then wait for the counter message before hitting the buttons, tho (I didn't bother).

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