KOF XIII: Saiki

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KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by Toxic Avanger » Thu Jul 28, 2011 22:52

How to Unlock
Play arcade mode and do as many targets as possible. Try to not kill, in fact, do not touch the opponent unless it's part of a trial - remember when it says "hit" it means you can achieve the target even if the opponent blocks it. You'll know you're doing well when you see the target raise to 4 repetitions. By the third match, Saiki will challenge you. Win or lose, he's yours to keep.
Tentative Movelist, originally from 17号, transcribed by the Prof, who saved me from a heavy workload with that :lol:
In
fwd .B or bk .B
Same as Ash's 4B motion. Moves horizontally through air either forwards or backwards depending on stick direction. Opponent is left with hit detection if they're hit in the air. Can be canceled from Jump A, C or CD excluding short hops. 50 Damage.

Kiyoku no tsuki
qcf .P
Projectile. A has no range, comes out relatively fast. Good recovery, about even when blocked done after a normal C in close range. Opponent is left with hit detection if they're hit in the air. C version goes Diagonally upwards, feels like a Raijinken that lasts shorter. Mainly used for combos. Both are 60 damage. EX version splashes ink-like stuff in front which is kind of like Magaki's shockwave, but with more horizontal range. Might hit about 6-8 times in full. Can't think of effective ways of using this at current time.

Hanetsurube no nata
DP .K
Flash Kick. B version hits once, comes out fast enough to connect from a weak but has no invincibility, can't be used as an anti-air since it only has hit detection on bottom at startup. D version hits twice, and holding on the button does an additional attack from warp and does good damage. Comes out relatively fast. Haven't checked if it's usable as anti-air. EX version is probably an anti-air but haven't checked.

Shichiri gake
dwn dwn with any button.
A warp move. A = warp in front, B = same location, C= back. D button makes him warp in air and he can do a normal or a special from there as well.

Move name Unknown
QCB .K
Looks like XI Ash's far D. Has good reach, hits crouching opponents. The opponent will fall on ground on a hit but they'll still have hit detection. B version is fast and connects from a weak. D version connects from a feirce and he warps in air if the button is held, can be connected to 4B at corner. EX version connects from fierce, causes wire damage when hit. D button can be held to warp in air but its location changes on distance and doing a good combo from there seems hard. All three are not safe on block.

Tokoyami no fune
qcf qcf .P
Multi-hit projectile that stops after moving forward a bit. Doesn't stop when it hits the opponent so it might not all hit if opponent is in close range.

Move name Unknown
qcf qcf .K
A 5-hit ranbu move that starts off from a weak flash kick. If it hits, Saiki attacks while warping and ends with him and the opponent trading locations. Has invincibility on startup but its hit detection is low.

Yami Otoshi
qcf qcf .K in Air
2 Hit move. Drops down from air like Seth's motion after a short moment. Opponent falls to the ground if it hits, Saiki stops time and stomps them. Can be used to Max Cancel.

Kyoryuu no ori
HCB HCB .P
Command throw with short range, EX version available.

Kasumi
QCBHCF .A .C
Neomax. Does full screen attack after transforming to his red naked state. Does about 50 chip damage. Not too fast, goes well with QCFx2+K in Air move.
Movelist VId

Combo and Setups Guide by Urasia

Playing Guide by Toxic Avanger
- Many of of his regular attacks look the same as Ash, but their hitbox have different target areas. For example Ash's air CD his on top of him and in front of him; but Saiki's one doesn't hit that much in front of him but rather the move hits a little more beneath him, but not beneath enough to beat a low crouching sweep.

- His short jumps are very special. While doing a short jump you can't be cancel a command move (so no jab -> command move) but you can cancel attack -> DM. His air cancelable move are the A, C and the CD. As usual, while in HD move all of his moves become super cancelable.

- Jumping forward to bk .B is a good bait at the proper long distance, you can also bait some "roll of the corner" roll escapes against jump with it. we also have bk bk ~ fwd .B , it can be a good overhead with very quick inputting and from zero range, but if you miss input this the move won't hit due to range and you are likely to get punished. Edit -> it turns that fwd .B is not an overhead, but people in my age rage ate because it's not something they are used to.

- His DP .B move isn't invincible, his .D one is. This move has a lot of forward range so it feels strange when catching the enemy from so afar. For example if an enemy blocks the D one at point blank, Saiki will land behind them, that usually can screw up some punishments since it's odd (I know that as Raiden, I had problems with it since I usually combo the EX tackle and that feature screwed up the charge). The doesn't means that you are not going to be punished.

- His qcf recovers kinda quickly but is very slow to come out, this is so because the black fire first "forms" itself and then moves forward, for example if you are playing point blank against a character that has quick fireball, if you try to use this to collide with the quick fireball, it might go through your fire while it's forming itself. If you are hit while the ball is forming it doesn't come out, so there are no 00 style unblokables here for us to exploit. qcf .C is very quick and is kinda suited for anti air~ing if you can get used to it, but there are better anti air options anyway. The EX version has no range and is only useful for some corner combos, but it adds too much scaling to my liking. Unlike Ash you can't add more hits after comboing the A fireball in the corner.

- I found myself using his teleport a lot when I was hit confirming things. For example when hit confirming cls .C to QCB .D, if I noticed that they were blocking I changed the QCB to a teleport by adding dwn .A . Some characters can punish that though, but still feels kinda fun. Be sure to always use df or db when doing crouching attacks, else the teleport will come out accidentally. The teleport input is always dwn dwn but can never be df df nor db db . If you use some pressure strings such as cr .D into fireball, and if the enemy rolls them without a stock, if you use cr .D into A teleport, that can create an advantageous circumstance, specially if you can bait an invincible DM afterwards.

- All of his DMs are kinda strong, but when it comes to this game most players don't use DMs to fight but rather EX moves, so that adds a little risk to his playing style. Contrarily his EX moves are a little bit difficult to use or to place.

- His air DM is an over head, that means that you can try to insta overhead it by doing tsubame gaeshing it, however since it's a DM and it has a DM flash that isn't advisable as they are likely to caught on quickly, further more the DM leaves you open if blocked. Sadly Saiki can't overhead it like Leona can since none of his jumping attacks will hit a crouching enemy when the jump is rising from the ground. Not even against Raiden. BTW, this DM actually stops time, so that means that it's great for Max cancelling as in since time is stopped, your HD bar doesn't decrease.

- His grab DM has llittle range and is hard to place, but when you have to grab is better to have an inescapable throw there than none. I'm not sure if it eats through attacks like most command throws do.

- His qcf qcf .K DM is his strongest defensive move, it has less range than the DP .D but with obvious more damage.

- They really, really tried to make his qcf qcf .P DM not that strong, it takes a lot to come out and it doesn't travel a lot. It's kinda ok for some short super cancels on the corner, but since the move doesn't stay out long you can do the same strategical uses that Ash has by chasing it. Don't think that you are going to throw the DM and then teleport behind the enemy, since the teleport is too slow, those type of strategies are easy to escape.

- His Neomax needs roughly a second before covering the whole screen. You might be able to catch some jumpers or something from full screen afar, but once you get good at using his Regular DMs and drive cancels you won't like the idea of burning that many resources for less than half bar damage.

When it combat, my Saiki usually walks around hit confirming cr .As into cls .Cs and other stuff, usually from afar you get to poke with far .C into fireball or a cr .D into fireball. Be careful that the far .C -> QCB .D doesn't combo at maximum range, and you are pretty much in for pain if that move gets blocked. Asides from those 2 hit pokes you have the DMs to stop enemy attacks (I already got some hatemail for doing that a lot :lol: ) and the usual "bait" game with either slow fireballs that you are going to chase after or with some kara cancel air moves and or group attack -> teleport.

The important thing is to learn when to use the air command move (as in, how deep and things like that), learn to hit confirm your moves (since anything but the fireball leaves you open when blocked) and learn when you have to teleport where, that can take some time getting used to.

Combo by Bala 1007 2 stock full hd
Combo Video by Infiltration
Combos (many of these are a handful because they don't rely on loops) :
- cr .A , cr .B , QCB .B
Weak, but your standard hit confirm combo. I usually do the QCB to hit, but if you are close you can replace it with a DP .D and follow up. If the first two attacks are blocked you really can't hit with anything.

- cls .A , cls .C , QCB .D -> .C , qcf qcf .D
The standard combo, does pretty good damage. I actually find easier to use a standing A rather than a crouching one. Just like Duolon, you not only have to confirm if you are hitting or not but also you need to confirm to which side you passed to when you teleport. if the cls C hits really from point blank, then you have to reverse the DM sequence or it will whiff. if you have no bar you can do a cls .C -> dwn dwn .B or a DP .B at the end instead.

- cr .C , QCB .B .D -> .A , QCB .D -> .B , DP .D -> .D
Pretty much the standard combo after 2 jumping attacks (pretty much everything else whiffs sans corner). you can add something better instead of the last DP and I really want to try if by drive cancelling this becomes a more interesting and strong combo.

- cls .C , QCB .D -> .D -> (air) bk .B -> DP .B , qcf qcf .A , qcf .C , qcf .A , DP .B
Corner combo, kinda weak for all the moves involved, but oh well. You can replace the last move with another DM if you want to use more bar of with the DP .D if you are in close range (be careful that it can whiff if you don't input it properly). Be careful with the height, if you screw it up the super cancel will whiff.

- cls .C , QCB .D -> .D -> (air) bk .B -> DP .B , qcf .C , QCB .D -> .D -> (air) bk .B . qcf .A , qcf qcf .B
A more advanced version of the previous combo, in order to get the Qcf C drive cancel you need to hold down C after performing the dp B.

- cr .B , cr .B , qcf .A .C , QCB .D -> .D -> (air) bk .B -> DP .B
Also a corner combo, you can also replace the last one for something much better.

- cls .C -> HD mode -> cls .C , [ QCB .B -> qcf .C , qcf .A ] x 4, DP .B , qcf qcf .D
Also a corner combo, a brain dead HD combo that I came up with in like 40 seconds and kinda like the only thing that I can sort of pull out. If you want to end it with a Max cancel you need to do the link x3 instead, and finish it with qcf qcf .D and the max cancel. That doesn't use the bar to it's fullest, but it's there, I really need to check what better things he can do.

- cls .C -> HD Mode -> cls .C , QCB .B -> DP .D -> QCB .D -> .D , bk .B , qcf .A , QCB .B -> qcf .C , qcf .A , DP .D -> QCB .D -> .D -> bk .B -> QCB .B -> qcf .C , QCB .D -> .D -> bk .B -> air bk .B -> air bk .B -> qcf qcf .D
The Current corner combo I pull off, it doesn't do as much damage as the brain damage HD combo from above, but it has the maximum amount of inputs that I have been able to perform and thus is dirt fun. In order to max cancel you have to stop during the second D teleport and cancel it with an air DM and the NeoMax. Maybe you can do back + b and air DM and neo max, I haven't trying it yet.
Gunsmith's scrapbook
Saiki

Saiki

General gameplay
qcb B is safe
but qcb D is lethal

and EX to go through fireballs

j A, bk B

dp b/d
dp B is nice and fast but is not invincible – D version is but what a slow start up – B version hits where D will not.

A goes a step backwards
B goes a hop screen fowards
C goes half screen forwards
D goes into the air
The biggest problem for a player is quickly judging which teleport to use when connecting with a qcb D or BD, since when you hold the corresponding button down after the kick connects, Saiki will teleport into that position – note that some combos are very range specific.
Doing this simple combo:
C > qcb D > hold C > dp B
Saiki will appear in front of the opponent
As soon as you do a far C, or add a jumping D, Saiki will then appear BEHIND the opponent, meaning you need to switch direction.


qcf A/C have slow start up but once they leave, Saiki is pretty much free to move. It’s too slow to use in projectile face/off. Saiki is better off jumping and using fwd/bk and B to avoid landing on any.
Qcb K
B is safe for cB poking
D good for combos but too slow from c B
EX hmmm too confusing and I’d save the stock for more damaging combos


Saiki is a monster that thrives on HD energy.
j D, C, qcb D, hold C, dp B, hold C, dp C hold C, dp D hold D, 466

The problem lies with his combos and tactics being very range specific.
Remembering the range of his teleports as mid screen things can get very confusing - for you and your opponent.
If you were to do the above combo mid screen, you would need to switch sides mid combo...

After the qcb D, His air bk B allows another juggle
compare:
qcb D > hold B > dp B 126
qcb D > hold D > bk B > dp B 170
Again, it's corner dependent so Saiki users have to constantly consider range and position.
Note that the fwd B wont let you juggle, but only because of the hit box of the dp B

A decent simple combo
c Bx3 dp D hold D
C > qcb D > hold C > dp B 247 (remember if you push opponent back with extra or far hits Saiki will then teleport behind them)
J D > C > qcb D > hold C > qcfx2 D 375 (322 without jump D)
J D > C > qcb D > hold C > dp B xx qcfx2 D 427 (377 without jump D)
D > qcfx2 D
j C > C > qcb D > hold D > (air) bk B > dp D hold D

corner combo
c Bx2 > hcf AC > qcb D > hold D > bk B > dp D > hold D

Full Drive no stock
J D > C > qcb D > hold C > dp B > hold C > dp B > hold C > dp D > hold D 481
J D > C > qcb D > hold C > dp B > hold C > qcf A > dp B > hold C > qcf A > dp D > hold D 542
Full drive 1 stock
J D > C > qcb D > hold C > dp B > hold C > qcf A > dp B > hold C > qcf A > qcfx2 D 620


fortunately there is no move for hcb C, so you can buffer this to combo his hcbx2 DM
hcb C > hcb C

You can use HD bypass too for an easy NM combo
hcb C > hcb BC xx qcb hcf AC 657
don’t forget you could just go into HD mode and grab and then get the NM… for a nasty mixup – and while it’s the weakest dm - it gives you life back.
C > hcb BC xx qcb hcf AC 523
Mid screen
C > dp BC > hold A > qcb hcf AC 573
c Bx2 qcfx2 BC xx qcb hcf AC 649 (with standing D takes 694)
Corner
c B x 3 > dp B > hold C > qcf A > dp D

c B x2 dp B > hold C > qcf A > dp D > hold D xx qcfx2 D 412

best way to use his qcfx2 C is with
c Bx2 dp B xx qcfx2 C dp B hold C > qcf A > dp D 343

Inflicting damage, as cheaply and safely as possible
c Bx3 qcb B does 136 damage and is safe on block
you can extend it with dp D, hold D, for 233 damage but this would cost you 50% drive and it's corner only
a wiser move would be super cancelling into qcfx2 for 316
he can't cancel his EX qcb BD
but he can EX dp BD for 175 - not worth it
he can drive cancel DP B into qcfx2 B for 351 but imo not worth it as it eats all your HD

However he can drive cancel into a teleport....

Easy NM combo (after some practice)
3 stocks full HD
C > C > qcb BC xx qcf C > qcf A > dp B > hold C > qcf A > dp B > hold C > qcf A > qcfx2 B > qcb hcf AC
again keep an eye on your distance - don't advance too close or the qcf a will miss
An easier version is just to do dp > hold C > dp B > hold C...

EASY BYPASS COMBOS
D > hcb C > hcb BC > qcb hcf AC
D > C > dp BC > hcbx2 C > qcb hcf AC

Oops just noticed j C takes 70 while j D takes 68 – could be a priority issue – normally the case.

Standard HD combos
j C, C, BC, C, dp D > hold A xx hcb AC > qcb hcf AC = 868 4 stocks
the EX grab has super range in comparison to the standard, which is why you must use 4 stocks. Not worth it but fun to see.
You can’t use a bypass in this combo because the DP B lifts the opponent off the ground.

MID SCREEN
qcb BC, dp B, hold A, dwn dwn C

tack on some cancels and we start to really dish out damage

Explanations of damage
dp D, hold D xx qcfx2 = 268
dp Dxxqcfx2 = 252

Now let’s take it to the next level
Long ass combos
1 stock full HD 620 corner only
J D > D > hcb D > hold C > dp B > hold C > qcf A > dp B > hold C > qcf A > qcfx2 D – 620
Full HD 2 stocks 850 damage corner only
D > D > qcb BC xx dp B > hold C > qcf A > dp B > hold C > qcf A > dp B > hold C > qcf A > dp B > hold C > qcb hcf AC 870
Don’t end with a qcf A because the NM won’t juggle in time

I WANT TO KILL THEM
3 stocks full HD 940 damage corner only
C > C > qcb BC xx dp B xx hold C > qcf A > dp B > hold C > qcf A > dp B > hold C > qcf A > qcfx2 B > qcb hcf AC
MOST LIKELY TO KILL THEM
3 stocks full HD 918 damage corner only
c Bx3 > qcb BC xx dp B xx hold C > qcf A > dp B xx hold C > qcf A > dp B xx hold C > qcfx2 B > qcb hcf AC
I NEED TO BREAK THEIR GUARD AND KILL THEM
3 stocks full HD
Go into HD
Empty hop or jump, hcbx2 BC > qcb hcf AC
(yes they can see this coming, but if they try to jump out and you mix it up with the c B combo above, they’re dead)

Did you know?
If Saiki connects with his far C, he can combo his hcbx2 AC
It has good priority and cancels into anything
His crouching C is pretty much instant and so far seems to beat Kyo after blocking (Kyo’s) qcf B scissor kicks. It also cancels so you can do qcf A afterwards as part of an anti air
His teleport is CRAP

There are cool looking combos you could do such as:

C > C > qcb BC xx qcf A > dp B xx qcfx2 c> qcf A > dp B xx hold C > qcf A > dp B xx hold C > qcb D xx hold D > qcfx2 > qcb hcf AC 877
but a) qcfx2 on ground hurts 10 points more than the aerial one
b) using qcfx2 scales your damage down

Gameplay

Emergency Procedures

Qcb hcf AC can be used as a full screen projectile killer
Trial Mode
Last edited by Toxic Avanger on Tue Feb 07, 2012 02:46, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by Yuki Yagami » Fri Jul 29, 2011 08:30

His Moveset (As seen in SNKP's site, may not be complete)
Notes:
- Added unlisted moves, and commands courtesy of Mikel and Toxic

Commands:
In (that's the name) - fwd + .B
In (Retreating) - bk + .B
Specials:
Kiyoku no Tsuki - qcf + .P
Hanetsurube no Nata - dp + .K
_Kasahazushi no Tsuchi - .A, .B, .C or .D ( .D or EX versions only)
Hiori no Kusabi - QCB + .K
_Ura Shichiri - .A, .B, .C or .D ( .D or EX versions only)
Shichiri Gake - dwn dwn + .A, .B, .C or .D
DMs:
Tokoyami no Fune - qcf, qcf + .P
Yami Otoshi - qcf qcf + .K (in air)
Washiba Otoshi - qcf qcf + .K
Kyoryu no Ori - hcb, hcb + .P
NeoMAX:
Kasumi - QCBHCF + .A .C
Last edited by Yuki Yagami on Sat Jul 30, 2011 03:36, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by MikelAL93 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 21:03

My notes on Saiki:
Special Moves:

*The HK/EX versions of the Hanetsurube no Nata can follow up to the Kasahazushi no Tsuchi
**Kasahazushi no Tsuchi has him teleporting to the opposite side of the air, doing an air version of his CD attack
**Press LP, LK, HP, or HK to activate the Kasahazushi no Tsuchi during the HK/EX versions of the Hanetsurube no Nata

*He has another Special Move known as the Hiori no Kusabi, which is him doing a straight forward kick
**Command for Hiori no Kusabi is qcb + K
**The HK/EX versions of it can follow up to the Ura Shichiri
***Ura Shichiri has him teleporting from the air, think Dhalsim's Yoga Teleport, but with him reappearing from the Air
***Press LP, LK, HP, or HK to activate the Ura Shichiri during the HK/EX versions of the Hiori no Kusabi

*Shichiri Gake has him teleporting closer to the player.
**The EX version of it can also be done in the air

Desperation Moves:

*He has a DM known as the Yami Otoshi, which can be done in the air
**Command is qcfx2 + K in the air
**It has him rubbing his shoe on his opponent's face, but he kicks them at the end of it
**It can Max Cancel to his Neomax
**EX Version is unknown

*He has another DM known as Washiba Otoshi, which has him doing Ash's Nivose, teleporting in the air doing three more attacks, and finally stomping on his opponent in the end.
**EX Version is unknown

*Kyoryu no Ori is similar to Hell Bringer and Final Bringer, but it can only be triggered if Saiki is close to the opponent.

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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by Max » Sat Jul 30, 2011 00:16

Damn, I wanted to make this topic.

The initial reports say that both versions of his qcf + .P have no range, yet the .gifs from Atlus clearly show a moving proyectile. Misunderstanding, perhaps?

He seems fun to use, especially with that warp.

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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by Toxic Avanger » Sun Jul 31, 2011 01:45



Take it as a preview of his BGM, the player doesn't really do anything interesting with him.

About further looking into the vids, it looks like :

- Has a new BGM called "The ones who rule time" (it's different from his Tarman boss form and from Dark Ash).
- Saiki can have 2 fireballs on screen (kinda unsure about this bit) (not counting his DM one).
- The C fireball his short ranged like 17号 said, but the weak one is a regular 95' type fireball.

I agree about him looking fun; ever since the arcade release I had this secret complain that no character was based around the concept of teleport; Like Mizuki or Chonshu... Now comes Saiki whose teleport works like Mizuki & Chonshu, so it's all good.


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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by Toxic Avanger » Wed Sep 07, 2011 19:33



As expected, most of his speech is patterned after his Tarman looks ( バカ! / あがけ! / 生きてる 意味 もねぇ な ) .

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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by Gunsmith » Tue Sep 13, 2011 23:58

I completed the game, defeating Dark Ash, and did not unlock Saiki. Instead, Billy was unlocked and something in the gallery.

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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by ZeroSoulreaver » Wed Sep 14, 2011 14:44

Saiki seems more interesting than Ash to me. I really like the setup he has after teleport in this vid. Fancy stuff.


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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by KIRBYSIM » Thu Oct 27, 2011 21:36

Gunsmith wrote:I completed the game, defeating Dark Ash, and did not unlock Saiki. Instead, Billy was unlocked and something in the gallery.
Was it the Xbox 360 version or the PS3 that you played?

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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by Gunsmith » Thu Oct 27, 2011 22:15

360 version.

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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by KIRBYSIM » Fri Oct 28, 2011 23:43

Gunsmith wrote:360 version.
That's interesting. I played a PS3 debug build, and on my first run in Arcade Mode I got Saiki first, then Billy in the next run. I wonder if the order is console-specific or random.

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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by ZeroSoulreaver » Thu Nov 24, 2011 16:34

Got Saiki finally and found out those teleports are actually button presses and not the tele input move. It's just so awkward to me. Someone told me last night he's "the easy version of Ash". To me he's the polar opposite of Ash, has good rushdown potential and those teleport setups really help. I honestly find Ash easier to play.

Main problem is that he really doesn't have a lot of safe moves. His fireballs aren't all that great either especially against characters like King who can just shoot off fbs like it's nothing. He has no Bon Voyage type move to get him in...so you have to rely on teleport which is risky. Really this character is about good timing with normals and being aware of your button presses.

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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by Toxic Avanger » Sun Nov 27, 2011 22:05

ZeroSoulreaver wrote:Someone told me last night he's "the easy version of Ash". To me he's the polar opposite of Ash
I have been playing a lot with Saiki and to be honest he is for about as amazingly fun as I thought he would be. Controls wise he feels like a World Heroes character, in a sense that he is stuck in between having a bunch of "new ideas on his moves which reward strong execution skills" yet he also has some good old "simple 3 hit" old school gameplay approach.

As for him being the opposite of Ash, we have that we can explain Ash has some very quick "weak" hit confirm moves with good recovery, and when he can properly hit confirm you he goes for some "all resources" combo which send the enemy to fruity nail polish hell. Saiki is different as in his hit confirm is definitely not as safe as Ash, and that his all resources combos aren't that incredible as they need some level of setting up (they still kill the character), his "mid resources" combos are amazingly good though, and that goes for "with set up" and "without set ups". (set up -> range, bars, landing 2 jumping moves, distance from corner, etc).

Thanks to that we have that Saiki feels very strong in above average gameplay style which uses some bars and drive cancels to be strong.

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- Many of of his regular attacks look the same as Ash, but their hitbox have different target areas. For example Ash's air CD his on top of him and in front of him; but Saiki's one doesn't hit that much in front of him but rather the move hits a little more beneath him, but not beneath enough to beat a low crouching sweep.

- His short jumps are very special. While doing a short jump you can't be cancel a command move (so no jab -> command move) but you can cancel attack -> DM. His air cancelable move are the A, C and the CD. As usual, while in HD move all of his moves become super cancelable.

- Jumping forward to bk .B is a good bait at the proper long distance, you can also bait some "roll of the corner" roll escapes against jump with it. we also have bk bk ~ fwd .B , it can be a good overhead with very quick inputting and from zero range, but if you miss input this the move won't hit due to range and you are likely to get punished.

- His DP .B move isn't invincible, his .D one is. This move has a lot of forward range so it feels strange when catching the enemy from so afar. For example if an enemy blocks the D one at point blank, Saiki will land behind them, that usually can screw up some punishments since it's odd (I know that as Raiden, I had problems with it since I usually combo the EX tackle and that feature screwed up the charge). The doesn't means that you are not going to be punished.

- His qcf recovers kinda quickly but is very slow to come out, this is so because the black fire first "forms" itself and then moves forward, for example if you are playing point blank against a character that has quick fireball, if you try to use this to collide with the quick fireball, it might go through your fire while it's forming itself. If you are hit while the ball is forming it doesn't come out, so there are no 00 style unblokables here for us to exploit. qcf .C is very quick and is kinda suited for anti air~ing if you can get used to it, but there are better anti air options anyway. The EX version has no range and is only useful for some corner combos, but it adds too much scaling to my liking. Unlike Ash you can't add more hits after comboing the A fireball in the corner.

- I found myself using his teleport a lot when I was hit confirming things. For example when hit confirming cls .C to QCB .D, if I noticed that they were blocking I changed the QCB to a teleport by adding dwn .A . Some characters can punish that though, but still feels kinda fun. Be sure to always use df or db when doing crouching attacks, else the teleport will come out accidentally. The teleport input is always dwn dwn but can never be df df nor db db . If you use some pressure strings such as cr .D into fireball, and if the enemy rolls them without a stock, if you use cr .D into A teleport, that can create an advantageous circumstance, specially if you can bait an invincible DM afterwards.

- All of his DMs are kinda strong, but when it comes to this game most players don't use DMs to fight but rather EX moves, so that adds a little risk to his playing style. Contrarily his EX moves are a little bit difficult to use or to place.

- His air DM is an over head, that means that you can try to insta overhead it by doing tsubame gaeshing it, however since it's a DM and it has a DM flash that isn't advisable as they are likely to caught on quickly, further more the DM leaves you open if blocked. Sadly Saiki can't overhead it like Leona can since none of his jumping attacks will hit a crouching enemy when the jump is rising from the ground. Not even against Raiden. BTW, this DM actually stops time, so that means that it's great for Max cancelling as in since time is stopped, your HD bar doesn't decrease.

- His grab DM has llittle range and is hard to place, but when you have to grab is better to have an inescapable throw there than none. I'm not sure if it eats through attacks like most command throws do.

- His qcf qcf .K DM is his strongest defensive move, it has less range than the DP .D but with obvious more damage.

- They really, really tried to make his qcf qcf .P DM not that strong, it takes a lot to come out and it doesn't travel a lot. It's kinda ok for some short super cancels on the corner, but since the move doesn't stay out long you can do the same strategical uses that Ash has by chasing it. Don't think that you are going to throw the DM and then teleport behind the enemy, since the teleport is too slow, those type of strategies are easy to escape.

- His Neomax needs roughly a second before covering the whole screen. You might be able to catch some jumpers or something from full screen afar, but once you get good at using his Regular DMs and drive cancels you won't like the idea of burning that many resources for less than half bar damage.

Combos. BTW, a lot of the things that 17号 discovered where taken out :lol:

- cr .A , cr .B , QCB .B
Weak, but your standard hit confirm combo. I usually do the QCB to hit, but if you are close you can replace it with a DP .D and follow up. If the first two attacks are blocked you really can't hit with anything.

- cls .A , cls .C , QCB .D -> .C , qcf qcf .D
The standard combo, does pretty good damage. I actually find easier to use a standing A rather than a crouching one. Just like Duolon, you not only have to confirm if you are hitting or not but also you need to confirm to which side you passed to when you teleport. if the cls C hits really from point blank, then you have to reverse the DM sequence or it will whiff. if you have no bar you can do a cls .C -> dwn dwn .B or a DP .B at the end instead.

- cr .C , QCB .B .D -> .A , QCB .D -> .B , DP .D -> .D
Pretty much the standard combo after 2 jumping attacks (pretty much everything else whiffs sans corner). you can add something better instead of the last DP and I really want to try if by drive cancelling this becomes a more interesting and strong combo.

- cls .C , QCB .D -> .D -> (air) bk .B -> DP .B , qcf qcf .A , qcf .C , qcf .A , DP .B
Corner combo, kinda weak for all the moves involved, but oh well. You can replace the last move with another DM if you want to use more bar of with the DP .D if you are in close range (be careful that it can whiff if you don't input it properly). Be careful with the height, if you screw it up the super cancel will whiff.

- cls .C , QCB .D -> .D -> (air) bk .B -> DP .B , qcf .C , QCB .D -> .D -> (air) bk .B . qcf .A , qcf qcf .B
A more advanced version of the previous combo, in order to get the Qcf C drive cancel you need to hold down C after performing the dp B.

- cr .B , cr .B , qcf .A .C , QCB .D -> .D -> (air) bk .B -> DP .B
Also a corner combo, you can also replace the last one for something much better.

- cls .C -> HD mode -> cls .C , [ QCB .B -> qcf .C , qcf .A ] x 4, DP .B , qcf qcf .D
Also a corner combo, a brain dead HD combo that I came up with in like 40 seconds and kinda like the only thing that I can sort of pull out. If you want to end it with a Max cancel you need to do the link x3 instead, and finish it with qcf qcf .D and the max cancel. That doesn't use the bar to it's fullest, but it's there, I really need to check what better things he can do.

- cls .C -> HD Mode -> cls .C , QCB .B -> DP .D -> QCB .D -> .D , bk .B , qcf .A , QCB .B -> qcf .C , qcf .A , DP .D -> QCB .D -> .D -> bk + .B -> DP .B -> qcf .C , QCB .D -> .D -> bk .B -> air bk .B -> air bk .B -> qcf qcf .D
Currently the combo I pull off, it doesn't do as much damage as the brain damage HD combo from above, but it has the maximum amount of inputs that I have been able to perform and thus is dirt fun. In order to max cancel you have to stop during the second D teleport and cancel it with an air DM and the NeoMax. Maybe you can do back + b and air DM and neo max, I haven't trying it yet.


Right now I'm having tons of fun with my "el hombre semáforo" costume.

When it combat, my Saiki usually walks around hit confirming cr .As into cls .Cs and other stuff, usually from afar you get to poke with far .C into fireball or a cr .D into fireball. Be careful that the far .C -> QCB .D doesn't combo at maximum range, and you are pretty much in for pain if that move gets blocked. Asides from those 2 hit pokes you have the DMs to stop enemy attacks (I already got some hatemail for doing that a lot :lol: ) and the usual "bait" game with either slow fireballs that you are going to chase after or with some kara cancel air moves and or group attack -> teleport.

The important thing is to learn when to use the air command move (as in, how deep and things like that), learn to hit confirm your moves (since anything but the fireball leaves you open when blocked) and learn when you have to teleport where, that can take some time getting used to.
Last edited by Toxic Avanger on Tue Feb 07, 2012 02:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by Dark_Chaotix » Mon Dec 19, 2011 15:24

Added movelist vid to first post

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Re: KOF XIII: Saiki

Post by Gunsmith » Mon Dec 19, 2011 23:29

I can't cancel his air attack bk .B into or from anything - have they removed it?

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