the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

ASH ASH ASH BORKEN

best layout

3+1
6
23%
2x2
14
54%
4x1
4
15%
3+1- D,ABC
2
8%
 
Total votes: 26

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the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Gunsmith » Fri Oct 29, 2010 17:35

I am of course, talking about button layout.
There are various arguments for other kofs but let's say this is just for XIII.
Is one layout better than the other?
I think 3+1 is better but I'm wondering if 2x2 is just as good and most arcades in Tokyo use this one.
The clincher for me is the usage of my thumb... I may have to switch to 2x2 because my thumb is getting old.... but then I'm concerned about bc/hd cancels...

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by PenPen » Sat Oct 30, 2010 05:43

Whoever that invented DABC layout needs to be smited with a sledgehammer. D:<

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Toxic Avanger » Sat Oct 30, 2010 18:10

2 x 2, obviously. The format can be similar to other fighting games, it's easy to press the 4 buttons simultaneously if necessary and it pretty much translates to every non portable console pad out there.

SNK games get props , however, for "nullifying" the need of using the 4 buttons at the same time since some buttons are just too far from each other (no game "asks" you to press .A + .D at the same time).

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by SonicTempest » Sat Oct 30, 2010 19:05

I'm used to the 3+1 layout, but all my fighting sticks have a 4-on-4 button layout so as of late I've been using the 4x1 layout for KOF and BlazBlue.

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Dark_Chaotix » Sat Oct 30, 2010 22:33

2x2 all the way

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Gunsmith » Sun Oct 31, 2010 20:54

My argument is that 4x1 is better because your fingers don't have to move. each finger is assigned to a button.
unfortunately, my little finger is too weak. so, I use the L config, 3+1. thus, my thumb take care of .A

is 2x2 really better?

I like using my two fingers as they are the most accurate but when it comes to BC combo mode everything gets twisted.

if 2x2 is better, how do you activate bc mode? with thumb or two fingers?

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Dark_Chaotix » Mon Nov 01, 2010 00:02

Well I like 2x2 cos it coincides with tekken which is also 2x2 button layout. TBH ive never had to play kof on a 3x1 system but I think id find it rather hard. If it were

ABC
D

then to me, pressing CD for guard attack would be hard. It was sorta similar with the "E" button on XI to do Ducks dwn, dwn + CDE....

Anyways, in answering your question, yes I use my middle finger and my thumb to activate BC. I guess i find it easy cos ive been used to it in years. In retrospect I have recently changed my button layout from

AB to AC
CD BD

because everywhere I go thats the format in 2x2. Which is why I had issues when I was in UK playing 98 and that layout in 2k2 ruined me (I think it was 3x1 at the time)

A like how they game gives you the option for either setup. If that was in other kof games then I think players travelling would be happy cos I know I would be since it has the setup that I like. I assume that its an option that you can turn on or off?

I give credit to the players that can play in ABCD format!

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Dark_Chaotix » Mon Nov 01, 2010 13:00

Here is a vid for you gunny on how i do it



hope this gives you some idea.

Oh and the vid is synced right, cos I got the flashes to align properly

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Gunsmith » Mon Nov 01, 2010 20:23

Thanks but no thanks - ewwwww nasty foot! Nobody needs to see a nasty man's bare foot. lol especially mine

1) Now, back to layout

In Japan, in some arcades, you can switch between 3+1 and 2x2 using a hardware switch.
In XIII, as you know, you can do a software switch.

3+1 =
BCD
A

while in HK, it's:
ABC
D

So you can see how the normal 3+1 is actually pretty good. There was some reasoning why the HK is good, but I've forgotten (can someone remind me?).

2) If you have time to be making lovely videos, then you can help with the tutorial that's coming out of this.

I suggest you change the camera angle completely, ... more like this:



Hope you know how to undersample a clip to make it run slow mo for lovely action replays :D

3) How are you going to hold two kick buttons for Raiden abuse on a 2x2 layout? Turn your hand into a crab? Compare it to holding B+D on a 3+1 layout. Less chance of cramps perhaps? Or maybe the crab is ok... You 2x2 veterans, let us know!

4) Is it just as easy to hold down buttons on a 2x2 layout: eg for Clark: Jump D (hold D) HCB C (let go D) HCB C

We must find the winning layout!

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Toxic Avanger » Mon Nov 01, 2010 22:56

Gunsmith wrote: 3) How are you going to hold two kick buttons for Raiden abuse on a 2x2 layout? Turn your hand into a crab? Compare it to holding B+D on a 3+1 layout. Less chance of cramps perhaps? Or maybe the crab is ok... You 2x2 veterans, let us know!

M~A~I~D~O~!!!!
Image

(So, it just like that (the pose)).
The true power of the 2 x 2 comes in when you press the buttons with your index fingers. Pressing them with your thumb is not only impossible but is such an impossible idea that it should be labeled as a sin. Heck, even pressing 2 buttons can be challenging only with your thumb.

When we take 2 x 2 and we compare it to 3 x 1 or 4 x 1, we have that since the hand is most of the time "almost closed" in 2x2, the index fingers are usually all close, so the "strain" from playing long periods of time is really, really low. This doesn't really apply for 3 x 1 or 4 x1 unless the buttons are abnormally close (this comes from someone that used to play for about 60 hours in a row when the lads of the gang decided on "a meeting", so getting your hand to hurt or not is important).
4) Is it just as easy to hold down buttons on a 2x2 layout: eg for Clark: Jump D (hold D) HCB C (let go D) HCB C
So, bottom line is, "is for about as easy as holding down 3 or 4 keys of your keyboard". (You do type with more than one finger, don't you? Yes, you).

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Gunsmith » Tue Nov 02, 2010 00:23

I don't get it D:

What I absolutely agree with is that the index and middle fingers are the best to play with, my thumb and 3rd/4th finger are worse (and in that order).

But how does that split double finger pose hold down the BD buttons, which are the bottom row of the 2x2 square, while allowing you to play with AC on the top?

Again with the Clark combo, you have to hold a button on the bottom row, say with your index or middle finger, so which finger are you using to hit the C button??? If with middle, your index can't even reach!

I don't get it... more pictures pls!

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Bugle/Hawk'M » Tue Nov 02, 2010 00:55

I don't think 2x2 is nearly as complicated or difficult as you are imagining it. .A is index finger, .B is the thumb, .C is the middle finger, and .D is the ring finger. So I guess it is sort of a claw formation with the ring finger tucked under the others, but it's really not very uncomfortable. It works fine for that Clark combo for instance. I guess if you don't like it, you can just make your thumb do double duty and only use your ring finger when necessary (double button presses). I can imagine you might get cramps if you are playing Raiden and holding your dropkicks all day, but hey maybe old guys like you shouldn't be playing a scrub character anyway. Some layouts may be more convenient than others, but at the end of the day if you play on something instinct will take over eventually.

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Toxic Avanger » Tue Nov 02, 2010 01:06

Gunsmith wrote:I don't get it D:

What I absolutely agree with is that the index and middle fingers are the best to play with, my thumb and 3rd/4th finger are worse (and in that order).

I don't get it... more pictures pls!
Image

I wanted a pic of golgo 13 playing pool or arming a weapon, but the search was so diverse in results that this one will have to suffice.

But how does that split double finger pose hold down the BD buttons, which are the bottom row of the 2x2 square, while allowing you to play with AC on the top?

Again with the Clark combo, you have to hold a button on the bottom row, say with your index or middle finger, so which finger are you using to hit the C button??? If with middle, your index can't even reach!
At that point remember that you have your entire hand and fingers in the table. For example try holding the key "9" in your keyboard and then press the key "L" or "ctrl" with the same finger. It's pretty easy to achieve this with the previously mentioned M~A~I~D~O~™ hand stance, playing as Raiden becomes easy as you'll use your thumb and the index or middle finger to press A and C, while the rest of the hand "rests" on the other buttons, this is easy of you are playing a machine with "A" and "B" on top and the rest on the bottom.

For holding the B and D buttons at the bottom (which is the example that you ask for), you can do many things, but for me I could easily achieve that by pressing B with my thumb and D with my 4th finger, leaving the index and the middle finger for A and C.

Of course, all of that logic comes with "practice" and figuring out what you will like the best. If you have a copy of any Tekken or VF at hand you can easily put into practice the M~A~I~D~O~™ hand control scheme, as the games constantly request you to press two or more button for the moves, throws and virtually everything (even some victory poses!)

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Dark_Chaotix » Tue Nov 02, 2010 09:54

Gunsmith wrote:Thanks but no thanks - ewwwww nasty foot! Nobody needs to see a nasty man's bare foot. lol especially mine
D: D:
Gunsmith wrote: Hope you know how to undersample a clip to make it run slow mo for lovely action replays :D
No I dont sorry. It depends on what you have planned cos I like doing the stuff I do which evolve around combos, but strats etc I can do too. If someone else is helping on it too?
Gunsmith wrote:Thanks but no thanks - ewwwww nasty foot! Nobody needs to see a nasty man's bare foot. lol especially mine

1) Now, back to layout

In Japan, in some arcades, you can switch between 3+1 and 2x2 using a hardware switch.
In XIII, as you know, you can do a software switch.

3+1 =
BCD
A

while in HK, it's:
ABC
D

So you can see how the normal 3+1 is actually pretty good. There was some reasoning why the HK is good, but I've forgotten (can someone remind me?).
The only reason why I can think HK is good is for 98um ABC charge or QM combos. I cant see it working too well in BC combos or CD guard attack.
Gunsmith wrote: 3) How are you going to hold two kick buttons for Raiden abuse on a 2x2 layout? Turn your hand into a crab? Compare it to holding B+D on a 3+1 layout. Less chance of cramps perhaps? Or maybe the crab is ok... You 2x2 veterans, let us know!
If i were to do that, Id have it so my ring and thumb are holding B and D, then have middle and index ready to press the others. I sorta used to it cos in order to do certain combos you have to hold buttons (eg - Iori cB, sB (hold) qcf+A, (release B), hcb+A) I cant do that without the shortcut and there are others like that...

So in regards to Raiden, Im sure when the time comes to use him, I can do it the way i described above.
Gunsmith wrote: 4) Is it just as easy to hold down buttons on a 2x2 layout: eg for Clark: Jump D (hold D) HCB C (let go D) HCB C

We must find the winning layout!
Lol, since when do you jump in with Clark jD :o :o

haha, but seriously in answering the question, just like above yeah it easy after a bit of practice.

TBH i dont think you will find the perfect button set up. I hated

AC
BD

before I converted to it from

AB
CD

and its def alot better. I couldnt do HK or UK style button cos Id get confused but like anything with practice you get accustomed to it. I still think 2x2 is a good setup cos cabs are normally setup with just 2x2 button setup, but yeah thats my 2 cents.

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Re: the great debate: 2x2, 3+1 or 4x1?

Post by Gunsmith » Tue Nov 02, 2010 18:33

I can show you how to undersample clips, it's easy (depending on your editing software). In Vegas, I just right click and select properties then fiddle with the sample rate. This will make it play faster or slower.

DC, you're going to have problems if you travel and play KOF, every cabinet I've been to with a 2x2 setup uses
AC
BD

which the same as pretty much every default pad layout ever (which is why I can actually use it fine)

I can see the claw stance for 2x2 working fine but I'm still baffled by the MAIDO. TA said no thumbs, while everyone else (here) is using one...

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