PS2 Review: Suikoden V

Gojira · Post by **Gojira** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 17:08

You know, before Suikoden IV came out there was always one thing you could count on the Suikoden series to deliver, even without great graphics or a deep battle system, and that was a great story. The trinity system in Suikoden III was a great way to tell a story from three different perspectives and endear the player towards the 100+ character roster that is the hallmark of the Suikoden series.

But when Suikoden IV came out, things became very uncertain of the series. The game itself replaced an overhead map with some hideously boring sailing, replaced war battles with braindead-easy ship battles, did away with various established systems, added load times, and reduced the size of parties. While these certainly hurt it, its most glaring fault was a complete lack of drama and twists in the story. Beyond the initial outing and Snowe's rather unexpected betrayal, the rest of the story just went along a standard rail of storytelling without any endearing qualities. It was a sad, dark point in time for the series.

So approaching Suikoden V with skepticism would have been a natural response, to be sure. And in all fairness, the first hour or three doesn't see a whole lot happening. However you do get an idea of the relationships of the royal family and everyone's personalities, which are strongly represented. And then, on about the 6th hour in, things really start to take off; before you know it you're embroiled in a political conflict of murder and betrayal that goes on for 60+ hours of gameplay (which went by so fast I hardly noticed how much time I'd spent). It's like a giant apology for Suikoden IV. Suikoden got its story groove back, and thank God for that.

Moving on though, there's more to Suikoden than story so let's examine the remainder for better or worse now:

The game feels like what Suikoden III should have been, like a true successor to Suikoden II in just about every sense. However, this isn't necessarily a good thing. While the game is certainly nostalgic in its handling of everything from army battles to field navigation, one can't help but get the impression of a first-generation PS2 game.

Most noticably, the graphics are seriously lacking in detail; the formerly detailed shops of III and IV are reduced to bland rooms with a man standing behind a counter, or even just a person standing around outside with nothing but a sign to indicate "hey, I'm the item salesman". The camera is fixed in a 3/4 perspective, and although you can zoom in a little, doing so only makes things seem claustrophobic since it's an overhead view.

The battles are pretty much the same as Suikoden II's system with minor enhancements. Seeing as Suikoden II's system was too simple for its time, Suikoden V feels even moreso at first. At least if you go into the skill system a bit you can find some new things to play around with, but its true potential isn't unlocked until you've found a number of book upgrades. The moderate load time into battle is an unfortunate remnant of Suikoden IV... not enough to bother casual players, but if you're used to the blazing-fast load times in previous Suikodens you'll just get annoyed at the encounter rate (which is as frequent as it's always been).

The music is a mixed bag. Some tracks are excellent, some are just okay, some might get on your nerves. In my opinion it leans more towards the good side of things, but your mileage may vary. Voices are equally mixed, but the main characters of import are handled exceedingly well so you'll probably only notice a few bad apples in one of the dozens of supporting characters.

And speaking of the characters, a large number of them are great. Despite how bad the graphics are most of the time, the characters in cutscenes are remarkably expressive and likable, and the great story brings that out even more.

Overall Suikoden V is a fantastic, if old-ish feeling game. While I do wish the graphics had been more up-to-standards, the multi-branching story and likable cast of characters still put it on a higher plane than a lot of the RPGs to come out in the last year. A heartfelt bravo to Konami for this one.

Eczema · Post by **Eczema** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 17:20

Are Viki and Yuber in this game? They were my fave characters from S3, and I heard they were in S2 as well so hopefully they make a return in S5. Jeanne is surely in this game too yeah?

Also, does the battle system incorporate runes again?

Gojira · Post by **Gojira** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 05:20

Yeah, Viki and Jeane are in the game (and Jeane actually has a minor part in the story, for once). No Yuber though, sorry. It does have Georg Prime as one of the main characters, who was a minor recruit in Suikoden II. Unfortunately he's about the only badass swordsman you'll find in the game. There are a few other returning characters too, but this takes place over a decade before Suikoden I so don't expect too many. Nonetheless, some of them are a nice surprise.

As for the battle system, yes there are runes. You can't attach them to weapons though. There is also a skill system similar to Suikoden III where you can upgrade a skill and equip it to increase certain stats.

Post by **Gunsmith** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 14:23

argh1 spoilarz
i've got suikoden IV sitting here waiting to be played (although I was horrified with the first 60 seconds when I tried it out)

hmmm but maybe I'll just skip

no bonus from save game? (wouldn't make sense if this is a prequel)

Gojira · Post by **Gojira** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 20:05

O sorry Gunny, but Suikoden IV's story really can't get any worse even with spoilers. If you were horrified from the outset then you probably won't like what comes next... it just gets worse. (In my own opinion of course, but there's a lot of agreement over this among the fanbase.)

Anyway no, Suiko IV save data doesn't import into V, but it does import into Rhapsodia/ Suikoden Tactics. I haven't played that game so I don't know if it's worth it or not.

Eczema · Post by **Eczema** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 13:35

so is suikoden 4 really that bad? should i bother even with a pirate?

pun cos you play a pirate in the game right??

Gojira · Post by **Gojira** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 05:17

I think as long as Suikoden V is out there's no real reason to play IV, unless you get a boner over excessive use of motion capture.

I will say one thing for Suikoden IV, the minigames are great. The maxigame is awful.

Demon_Mexican · Post by **Demon_Mexican** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 05:29

Eczema wrote:so is suikoden 4 really that bad? should i bother even with a pirate? pun cos you play a pirate in the game right??

Im an avid Suikoden fan, and I thought SKD4 was fun I mean it was different from the norm ex: pirates/ships/change teams during battle and thats what I like about SKD games the uniqueness from other rpg's.
First of all most hero's in RPG's have the male protaganist with an uber cool blade ex: katana/broadsword/etc. But the SKD protaganist steer away from that, like for an example a staff. Most characters with staff usually suck from what I've seen in other rpg's.
So I suggest if your a SKD fan that at least you should try it. I mean some people said FF8 sucked and blah blah blah but you still played it right? Anyways do what makes you happy.

Eczema · Post by **Eczema** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:37

i like ff8 more than ffx and ff7, so yeah, i guess I'll give S4 a try.

Alseid · Post by **Alseid** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 19:32

Just want to add a few things:

Give SIV a chance. It's not as bad as everyone makes it. Sure, could be better, but could be much worse as well. If anything, the slow sailing system is what breaks the game, and once you get Viki, it doesn't matter anymore. And hell, the people who I've seen complain the most, never noticed you can sail faster by pressing a button (true story).

Rhapsodia/Tactics is very nice, too. Doesn't hold that well on itself if you haven't played SIV, but that's expected. It goes into detail on the Kooluk nation (which as of SIV, might as well just been a fortess with a boob-shaped cannon), its monarchy, its relationship with other nations (Scarlet Moon Empire, particularly), etc. It also further explains the origin of the Rune Cannons, the final boss of SIV, and the fate of the Rune of Punishment (assuming you loaded data).

As for SV, other than what has been said here, there's a lot more going for it.
The battle system now includes a new feature, the formations, which allow you to arrange the party in different ways, each with different effects, which adds a lot of strategy to the normal battles. If you don't pay attention to which character is in which location, you can end up with them missing most hits, or getting killed fast. On the contrary, if you plan things well, you can pretty much become untouchable.
Also, the party is now made of 10 people. 6 active, 4 passive. The passive party can be used to put support characters (who have different skills like Healing, Treasure Finder, Potch Finder, etc), or to keep fighter characters in the reserve.
As for the skill system, it starts very limited (only 2 skills equiped at any time), but over time it improves (you find skills that combine other minor skills. There's even one that comprehends every skill, but only some characters can use it).
The strategic battles are now real time, which can be a little annoying, until you get the hang of it, then becomes very good and challenging. Although there's a few issues that need fixing...but nothing too terrible.
One-on-one fights are basically the same as in the other games, except now there's a timer. You have a few seconds to pick your action, and if both characters pic "attack", it's mashing time! They are animated and choreographed greatly, with each character having their own style, and different reactions to the enemy's moves (as in, before, if the enemy used a deathblow, and you guarded, you'd just jump back as he attacked, then hit him. Now, the hero will dodge, block or parry, depending on the enemy and the attack, and then beat the crap out of the enemy. Every battl has different animations, all greatly done). And some duels don't even involve the hero.
This time the recruiting is a bitch (in a good, challenging way). In SI and SIV the recruiting was rather ridiculous. People would be joining you for no real reason. In SII and SIII it's better, but still an easy job. Most of the time you just talk to someone and they'll join. But in SV, almost everyone needs you to do a little something extra to recruit them. Some need you to ask them several times. Some need you to carry out a little errand, or bring someone in particular (sometimes depending on levels, too). Some characters have their own sidequests, and some even have their own dungeons. And many, many, many have time limits, and you can miss them forever. And most of the time, these chars don't come alone, so If you miss one, you miss a bunch.
The story, as already mentioned, is very complex and interesting. Some might need to replay the game a couple times to figure out what really was going on all along.
The characters are awesome this time. Pretty much everyone has enough development behind them to make them unique and interesting (something SIV lacked remarkably), be it through the main story, trough secret scenes, detective's investigations, comments from the comment box, bath scenes, etc.
Returner characters, like said before, are just a few, as the game takes place about 6 years before SI, and most are involved in the story.
Also, this time we have the most awesome strategist in the whole series, and it's not even a Silverburg!
As for minigames and stuff to waste time on, there's a lot to do. Collecting art to decorate the castle (which, admittedly, could have been far more customizable), ingredients for the cook, seeds for the farm, fish for the aquarium... The fishing minigame is bloody awesome, and the Dragonhorse racing game is much better than the racing game in SIII. There's loads of bath scenes, and some of them are hilarious.

As for the graphics, granted, they aren't as impressive as they should be. I'll admit the first time I saw screenshots and movies of the game, I was disappointed.
However, in the game itself, they work surprisingly well. The character models are very fitting to the character art, too.
Towns are very well designed, each one with its own kind of architecture, and all very, very big. So much that some people will get lost. A lot. I did.

The music, I disagree with what's said here. There's only one _bad_ track in the game, and it's intentionally bad. It's the theme for a town called Haud, which is populated entirely by pretentious so called artists, and it's designed to insult your senses (a character even points it out).
The rest of the game's music is very good. Some tracks might not be entirely memorable, but some others will be stuck on your head for hours (Raftfleet theme, for one). There's also new versions of old themes from the other games (The Moonlight theme, Midwinter land, etc..)
Also, certain characters change the battle music, so you can keep them in your party depending on which you like more. Moroon <3

What else, what else...Ah, yeah. Georg being the only badass swordman? What? What about Belcoot? The chick who chases Belcoot (whose name i forget)?Isabel? Richard? (well, that one is not so badass, but, damn, the damage...)

As for those wanting Yuber and Pesmerga... Well, at this time in the game, we know Yuber was working for Windy, and Windy is looking for the Soul Eater, so there's no point for him to be here. And without him, no Pez.

Besides, PESMERGA SUCKS.

Slapper Joe · Post by **Slapper Joe** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 23:47

Usually try out new RPGs with a few friends (bad formula I know, but it really lets the good ones shine (like DQ8.)) And I got to say Suikoden 5 failed pretty miserably.

* Unskipable scenes with slow as hell message skip (even at max speed.)
* Every female in the game under 30 being voice acted by someone sounding under 12.
* Only 3-4 voices out of the first 20 don't make you wince.
* No camera control! Flashback doesn't have see-through walls so no rotation is a crime.
* Another quiet teenage, feminine main character. Why can't they just have a damn girl headline the RPG. Or better yet, someone who actually looks like a male.
* 80 minutes into the game we were only in significant control for 2-3 of them. And in that time there were random battles every few meters.
* Stupid use of the party system (meet X in hall, X joins party to escort you to room 10 feet away, then leaves party.)
* Pointless early filler 'quests' (wild goose chase for your sister in the castle.) I'd rather be stabbing rats in the sewer with my wooden stick :(

So after 90mins (that felt like 3 or so hours) and the start of another filler quest it got turned off. You play a game to interact with something (something more than pressing a button for next message window.) If you want a drawn out storyline then you may as well go watch Prison Break or something.

I had no problem with the graphics though. ShinMegaTen-like simplistic graphics do work in the genre.

Alseid · Post by **Alseid** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 01:36

If you're going to let yourself be discouraged by a slow start, you might as well give up on RPGs.

So it takes a while for the "real" game to start. But once it does...

Gojira · Post by **Gojira** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 03:14

I wanted to like Suikoden IV, but I really couldn't. Yes I knew about making the ship sail slightly faster. Except it's only RELATIVELY faster. It still moves slow as hell. What's more, there's nothing to see out there. You just sail sail sail, get attacked, sail sail sail, get attacked, sail sail sail. And it's always the same view, and 90% of the time the same monsters attacking. And the worst part is that was barely 1/5 of what I hated about the game.

As for S5, Slapper Joe here illustrates that if you give up on the game too early you won't get anything out of it. Consider it Konami's way of "weeding out the idiots" (which is a line from the game, aren't I clever?).

EDIT: oh, and as to what I said about Georg, maybe "badass" was the wrong word. That was just in response to looking for a Yuber or Pesmerga type in the game. Georg is about as close as anyone in S5 comes. Belcoot and Hazuki and Isabel are cool, but definitely not in the same vein as Pez/Yuber.

Slapper Joe · Post by **Slapper Joe** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 08:16

Please, you are kidding me right?

Not wanting to press the same button end on end as the game developers decide to dump AT LEAST ninety minutes of monologue upon me at the start makes me an idiot? If you actually enjoyed it then don't get offended when I think the same out you (hey check me out, I can make immature remarks instead of arguing a point.) Poor design and poorly spaced storytelling are not good ways to introduce a game to anyone.

If the designers are not capable of spacing out the storyline properly then there should be an option to skip non-critical scenes (of which 90% of Suikoden V's start is.) Not only does it keep sanity in check but hugely increases replay value. I just fail to see any redeeming feature of throwing all of this unimportant storyline at you all at once without a chance to avoid it, feel free to point out where I am wrong in this analysis.

DQ8 has you up and running in 10 minutes and in the outside world in 20, Oblivion in less. Any game designer worth a damn (regardless of game genre) knows this and actually integrates the story arc into the game's advancement itself, and this has become more and more common of late. I'm not arguing if the game opens up or become better. Just sadly that it has so many obvious flaws that are obvious right from the start. None of which you addressed.

It is not like RPGs are thin on the ground either, my backlog here is absolutely ridiculous. If one can't grab my attention then it should get thrown at the bottom of the pile. I gave Suikoden V more than a fair chance, more than I should of considering past attempts. II was mediocre while III and IV were plain poor. I won't comment on tactics since it was not a true brand extension, it quickly got sold though.

Regarding the Konami comment, I gave up on Crime Life very quickly. Does that make me a double idiot or something? Does the time I've wasted on MGS2+3:Subsistence somehow counter this?

Alseid · Post by **Alseid** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 21:05

Slapper Joe wrote:I gave Suikoden V more than a fair chance, more than I should of considering past attempts. II was mediocre while III and IV were plain poor.

That explains a lot.