Syo Hayate
- Slapper Joe
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Yet another undiscussed character (and obviously unlocked over here today since I'm posting about him.) I'll refrain from in-depth talk until tomorrow once I've fiddled with normals and command attacks some more.
But I just have to mention the hit box on his +K pirouet + knee is beyond strange. He spins maybe one characters distance in length forward, then shoots up for a knee that goes forward about the same amount. But the B version will magically hit someone that throws out an attack from about 1/2 a screen away, the D version from over 3/4 screen distance.
But I just have to mention the hit box on his +K pirouet + knee is beyond strange. He spins maybe one characters distance in length forward, then shoots up for a knee that goes forward about the same amount. But the B version will magically hit someone that throws out an attack from about 1/2 a screen away, the D version from over 3/4 screen distance.
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- Slapper Joe
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I don't think there is much doubt his projectile is the best in the game, but not being able to do stuff while the boomerang is out (even stuff like air d+C which doesn't even use it hurts.) The fact it doesn't hit on the way back is also suckage.. thats the entire point of a boomerang.
Close s.C and c.C are your cancelable attacks. s.B and c.A can be used for +K, but everything else is too slow so you have to use the meatier attacks.
+C and f+C are boomerang swipes, standard filler so far. Air b+C is another boomerswipe. b+C on ground is a really slow and short range punch, hope it has autoguard. His CDs are really poor. As is jD, does good damage though.
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+P: Boomerang throws, good of course, C goes upwards. Can be done in air as well, both head downwards in that case. You have to wait for it to come back before being able to to most (all??) specials afterwards. You can sort of chase after it to speed up this time.
+K: The spin and knee, on CH it will wire. Like most of his stuff it leaves him vulnerable.
+C: Dash in and upwards swipe with boomerang. Another +C will do another full 360 swipe with the boomerang while jumping into the air.
+K: Dash in and a huge vertical knee all the way to the top of the screen. Combos into well and can be followed up while he is in the air (an attack or to get the hell away since he is crazy vulnerable.) Tiny damage as well.
air d+C: Like B.Jennets d+Ks he zooms along attacking. Chip damage isn't bad and has a few combo opportunities.
air +K: The ground version does a short range knee that goes right up, this is a short range kick that goes right down. Sort of works for crossups and stuff like that. It will also get Syo to the ground quickly, as opposed to the d+C.
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qcbx2+P: Shoots out 3 boomerangs to cover his entire front.
qcfX2+P: A charged boomerang that seems to have some autotracking
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,hcb+E: LDM one, an autocombo that starts with a low hit, it does catch people blocking high a fair bit.
,f+E: LDM two, same stuff but stays grounded. May have autoguard on initial rush.
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Combo Stuffs:
c.B, c.A, +B
c.C, +B, d+C
CH +K, +C -> +C
Close to corner: Jump in C, close s.C -> f+C -> +B -> air +B (early), +B -> qcbx2+A -> ,f+E Fun for the whole family.
Close s.C and c.C are your cancelable attacks. s.B and c.A can be used for +K, but everything else is too slow so you have to use the meatier attacks.
+C and f+C are boomerang swipes, standard filler so far. Air b+C is another boomerswipe. b+C on ground is a really slow and short range punch, hope it has autoguard. His CDs are really poor. As is jD, does good damage though.
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+P: Boomerang throws, good of course, C goes upwards. Can be done in air as well, both head downwards in that case. You have to wait for it to come back before being able to to most (all??) specials afterwards. You can sort of chase after it to speed up this time.
+K: The spin and knee, on CH it will wire. Like most of his stuff it leaves him vulnerable.
+C: Dash in and upwards swipe with boomerang. Another +C will do another full 360 swipe with the boomerang while jumping into the air.
+K: Dash in and a huge vertical knee all the way to the top of the screen. Combos into well and can be followed up while he is in the air (an attack or to get the hell away since he is crazy vulnerable.) Tiny damage as well.
air d+C: Like B.Jennets d+Ks he zooms along attacking. Chip damage isn't bad and has a few combo opportunities.
air +K: The ground version does a short range knee that goes right up, this is a short range kick that goes right down. Sort of works for crossups and stuff like that. It will also get Syo to the ground quickly, as opposed to the d+C.
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qcbx2+P: Shoots out 3 boomerangs to cover his entire front.
qcfX2+P: A charged boomerang that seems to have some autotracking
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,hcb+E: LDM one, an autocombo that starts with a low hit, it does catch people blocking high a fair bit.
,f+E: LDM two, same stuff but stays grounded. May have autoguard on initial rush.
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Combo Stuffs:
c.B, c.A, +B
c.C, +B, d+C
CH +K, +C -> +C
Close to corner: Jump in C, close s.C -> f+C -> +B -> air +B (early), +B -> qcbx2+A -> ,f+E Fun for the whole family.
Last edited by Slapper Joe on Mon Mar 20, 2006 06:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Sometimes stuff like air d+C (or A as well as I've just found out) will come out when Hayate doesn't have his boomerang. Strange that. You can pull the move off close to the ground, both on the way up and down. I'm sure some psuedo-hopping with superjump-back->this may have uses.
His b+C seems to have about 1/2 a second of high invulnerability, it is not easy to use it to knock anybody out of anything.
A wiffed +C charge has 0 recovery, blast through whatever opponent tries to do to punish you with +B.
He is awful for building meter as well, really needs to come out last (leader or not.)
His b+C seems to have about 1/2 a second of high invulnerability, it is not easy to use it to knock anybody out of anything.
A wiffed +C charge has 0 recovery, blast through whatever opponent tries to do to punish you with +B.
He is awful for building meter as well, really needs to come out last (leader or not.)
- Slapper Joe
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That corner combo I listed above really inconsistant, I haven't been able to connect it since that day. In corner +K, (air) +K, anything in general doesn't seem to be very consistant at all.
The b+C gives 100% invulnerablity for about 1/3rd of a sec, He can be hit before he punches, but wakeup dps and such will wiff. It's also LDMable.
+B is goodgood, could very well be invulnerable for most of the animation.
Homerrang is all fun and games, sure it has terrible charge time but it does a great job locking onto target. If someone tries to roll through it then it travels with the roll and usually hits from behind. Because of the slow charge time people instinctively think it'll be unblockable and try to roll through alot. It'll do full 180s as well if someone gets behind you.
(air)qcb+k can be used as a jumpin and allows typical combos afterwards.
The b+C gives 100% invulnerablity for about 1/3rd of a sec, He can be hit before he punches, but wakeup dps and such will wiff. It's also LDMable.
+B is goodgood, could very well be invulnerable for most of the animation.
Homerrang is all fun and games, sure it has terrible charge time but it does a great job locking onto target. If someone tries to roll through it then it travels with the roll and usually hits from behind. Because of the slow charge time people instinctively think it'll be unblockable and try to roll through alot. It'll do full 180s as well if someone gets behind you.
(air)qcb+k can be used as a jumpin and allows typical combos afterwards.
- Slapper Joe
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4th post in a row. Great to see everyone LOOOVES the new characters.
I just can not work out why sometimes the air zoom will not work after throwing the boomerang (I obviously try it a lot since getting to the other side of the screen gets it back in your hand faster.) It appears to be consistant though, you always can do it, or always can not.
As for strats, he is the king of time out. Again another reason to put him last. If someone trys to get in on you then pirouet them. It is as good as K''s uppercut on startup. Otherwise throw the bent stick at their head. He also appears to be good against Clark, the straight up flying knee seems to have a huge hitbox and does a great job of knocking him out of every single attack he has. Coming down with another +k directly into b+C makes something that looks hugely punishable pretty hard to counter as well. You can always just zoom to the other end of the screen or throw a late air boomerang to mix it up.
I just can not work out why sometimes the air zoom will not work after throwing the boomerang (I obviously try it a lot since getting to the other side of the screen gets it back in your hand faster.) It appears to be consistant though, you always can do it, or always can not.
As for strats, he is the king of time out. Again another reason to put him last. If someone trys to get in on you then pirouet them. It is as good as K''s uppercut on startup. Otherwise throw the bent stick at their head. He also appears to be good against Clark, the straight up flying knee seems to have a huge hitbox and does a great job of knocking him out of every single attack he has. Coming down with another +k directly into b+C makes something that looks hugely punishable pretty hard to counter as well. You can always just zoom to the other end of the screen or throw a late air boomerang to mix it up.
- Franz Bonaparta
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U want a Turtle team? Pick Eiji, Shyo(SHo?), Leader Ryo! There you go perfect! I have not seen any decent Shyo players out there... they just stick to hit+run strategy(including me, since i cant use this Australianized-Japanese)! I dont really like his style of play... SlapperJoe, you must like him sooo much yeah? Those 4 posts above me^ are enough to cover Shyo Hayate's strategy+combos imo.
- Slapper Joe
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+k actually stuffs a lot of offense from a lot of characters. I mentioned Clark, but Duck appears to be another who really struggles to even trade with it. Griffon appears to be able to air grab him before he even starts going up, so Hayate might not be grounded for any of the move.
(c.B), c.A, c.D combos suprisingly (c.D is so slow so it is a suprise.) Might be stuff after since the c.D is cancelable. Midscreen +k can also be landed from early and lead into stuff (dp+k/qcb+p -> multirang.)
Characters that pressure with single hit meatiess (or basically slowish moves with big stun) just can't do much about b+C on offense or defense. This won't apply to characters with multihit meaties (Kula close C) or spammable stuff (Kula d.B)
I mentioned homerang does a uturn to catch people behind you. This isn't true, it will infact just head straight for them, even though the Hayate sprite throws the rang forwards it will infact instantly track 100%.
(air) +k has a hitbox that covers behind him. Makes it hard for people to try and cross him up on his way down.
The only times I can't do d+C without 'rang is when he is leader. Wonder if that has something to do with it... Who cares if Ash actually stole Iori's pink flames, this is the real question of XI.
(c.B), c.A, c.D combos suprisingly (c.D is so slow so it is a suprise.) Might be stuff after since the c.D is cancelable. Midscreen +k can also be landed from early and lead into stuff (dp+k/qcb+p -> multirang.)
Characters that pressure with single hit meatiess (or basically slowish moves with big stun) just can't do much about b+C on offense or defense. This won't apply to characters with multihit meaties (Kula close C) or spammable stuff (Kula d.B)
I mentioned homerang does a uturn to catch people behind you. This isn't true, it will infact just head straight for them, even though the Hayate sprite throws the rang forwards it will infact instantly track 100%.
(air) +k has a hitbox that covers behind him. Makes it hard for people to try and cross him up on his way down.
The only times I can't do d+C without 'rang is when he is leader. Wonder if that has something to do with it... Who cares if Ash actually stole Iori's pink flames, this is the real question of XI.
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Tried and lost with him tonight, comments to be taken with a pinch of salt:
Homerrang seems pretty useless ones your opponents get used to it. They just block =\
Maybe there's some unblockable set up for it with incoming opponents? Othewise, i just don't see it being useful in a serious match.
I don't think +B is fully invulnerable. Got beat out of it with deep meaty c.Bs and jump attacks.
He may have the fastest projectile, but overall lag after throwing it means he doesn't do well against anyone with a decent fireball throwing rate. Iori and Ash come to mind.
Didn't see this posted so far, but d.B>s.C links. Got d.B>s.C>df+C> +B to connect once. Has to be deep tho, I think. So, best non-super combo off a d.B would be d.B>s.C>df+C> +K> d+C? Or maybe d.B>s.C>df+C> +C> QS?
Seems to me that's he'll be a hard counter for characters slow big characters (yeah I'm looking at you Griffon, Maxima and Silber) and only decent against other characters.
Tried +B> SC Multirang before? How's damage?
According to the Conquerer's, Counter damage on the Multirang is insane (52, as good as most LDMs). Given its speed, it might be worth learning to use it like Eiji's Tensa Zangetsu or K's Heat Drive? Possible Rayspin/Iceflake/Gato Bounce/Card Throw counter?
b+C can also cancel to DM's and QS.
Interesting character, but terrible hops. Running away and throwing boomerangs all day might get old =\ Eiji has godly jump B. King has the jump D from hell. He doesn't seem to have anything that really allows him to presssure continuously.
Homerrang seems pretty useless ones your opponents get used to it. They just block =\
Maybe there's some unblockable set up for it with incoming opponents? Othewise, i just don't see it being useful in a serious match.
I don't think +B is fully invulnerable. Got beat out of it with deep meaty c.Bs and jump attacks.
He may have the fastest projectile, but overall lag after throwing it means he doesn't do well against anyone with a decent fireball throwing rate. Iori and Ash come to mind.
Didn't see this posted so far, but d.B>s.C links. Got d.B>s.C>df+C> +B to connect once. Has to be deep tho, I think. So, best non-super combo off a d.B would be d.B>s.C>df+C> +K> d+C? Or maybe d.B>s.C>df+C> +C> QS?
Seems to me that's he'll be a hard counter for characters slow big characters (yeah I'm looking at you Griffon, Maxima and Silber) and only decent against other characters.
Tried +B> SC Multirang before? How's damage?
According to the Conquerer's, Counter damage on the Multirang is insane (52, as good as most LDMs). Given its speed, it might be worth learning to use it like Eiji's Tensa Zangetsu or K's Heat Drive? Possible Rayspin/Iceflake/Gato Bounce/Card Throw counter?
b+C can also cancel to DM's and QS.
Interesting character, but terrible hops. Running away and throwing boomerangs all day might get old =\ Eiji has godly jump B. King has the jump D from hell. He doesn't seem to have anything that really allows him to presssure continuously.
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I'm gonna be trying him out once my arcade has him unlocked - Ryo, Kyo, Syo, the YO team.
In either case, from what I've seen via match vids and what I've heard here, he'd be a decent balance for that team - Kyo with pure offense, Ryo with balanced offense and defense, and Syo with defense/keep away. One character for every situation encountered.
In either case, from what I've seen via match vids and what I've heard here, he'd be a decent balance for that team - Kyo with pure offense, Ryo with balanced offense and defense, and Syo with defense/keep away. One character for every situation encountered.
- Slapper Joe
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Pirouet->multirang damage is good.
Multirang is very vulnerable at the start and he tends to get hit clean out of it, making it very hard to get a counter-hit. All three rangs need to hit to get the big damage, when combined with above then it's very hard to use for pure damage.
Never occured the QS or typical super would work off b+C, saw in Cnq guide and it also just looked like a LDM only move. That QS in particular will be a huge boon (I suppose if it hits all 3 of the multirang would hit as well meaning good damage.)
I was thinking after a KO a late dash close to corner into homerang for an ambiguous crossup might work. Even if not, stuck facing the wrong way in the corner would be too much of an invitation for many people to pass up.
After the wire combo a d+C isn't the best option. Spacing makes it hard to get all hits, often you can't get any. Quick landing and +D is probably the best option, +c, +c is the best damage if spacing is good. I've yet to try if another +k will wire again after one wall bounce. I suppose I should.
As wakeup b+C/grab works well on the nonspammable chars.
Multirang is very vulnerable at the start and he tends to get hit clean out of it, making it very hard to get a counter-hit. All three rangs need to hit to get the big damage, when combined with above then it's very hard to use for pure damage.
Never occured the QS or typical super would work off b+C, saw in Cnq guide and it also just looked like a LDM only move. That QS in particular will be a huge boon (I suppose if it hits all 3 of the multirang would hit as well meaning good damage.)
I was thinking after a KO a late dash close to corner into homerang for an ambiguous crossup might work. Even if not, stuck facing the wrong way in the corner would be too much of an invitation for many people to pass up.
After the wire combo a d+C isn't the best option. Spacing makes it hard to get all hits, often you can't get any. Quick landing and +D is probably the best option, +c, +c is the best damage if spacing is good. I've yet to try if another +k will wire again after one wall bounce. I suppose I should.
As wakeup b+C/grab works well on the nonspammable chars.
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I managed to try Sho today. He's every bit as boring as he was in Kizuna, and maybe even more so. His damage isn't hot either, though he is quite good for annoying opponents with all that turtling. The multiple boomerang DM is quite good though.
What's the use of his +K anywaY? That thing seems pretty suicidal IMHO, and the damage if it hits isn't worth it.
What's the use of his +K anywaY? That thing seems pretty suicidal IMHO, and the damage if it hits isn't worth it.
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I rarely get punished for using it, the only time you should get punished is if you decide to d+P after it and the opponent is ready to run after you (and is fast enough.) Just come right back down with the air qcb+K as soon as you leave the ground. Yuri and King d.Cs might work, but in general you have the incentive with plenty of options at your disposal.
As for damage it is wire on any hit which gives him lots of choices to tack on extra damage.
As for damage it is wire on any hit which gives him lots of choices to tack on extra damage.
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d.B> d.C>Special/Super works too. I couldn't get d.B>d.C>df+C to work tho. Might require some funky timing or a joystick neutral between d.C and +C.
b+C> Super works fer sure. Damage is a bit meh tho. 25-30%-ish.
I don't think he's a terrible a first character because that boomerang is the best spoiling attack in the game. Sure you don't charge meter that fast, but your opponent can't either. Specially those who start with Gato. Like Terry, he's the kinda first character that's great for pissing people off before your rushdown characters come in and mop up.
If you're on the ground when the boomerang returns to you, there's a split second recovery animation as he grabs the boomerang out of the air. Avoid this situation like the plague.
Air d.C isn't all that safe against blocked opponents if you hit them at head level. Kula can stand C you on you landing =\
Stand B is great anti-hop. Very reminiscent of Andy's. Really need to find out if he has an all-juggle move he can whore after it. Multi-rang?
Jump D and CD aren't all that horrible, pretty decent air to air. Jump C is good (like all jump Cs in the game, it seems), is good air to ground and decent air to air. Jump B has a huge hitbox but little block/hit stun, like Larf's. But in the end of the day, why are you hopping in the first place? Its like rushing down with Dhalsim in MvC2.
I think he's a potential anti-KGO since he plays the game on a whole different tempo and distance. Please don't tell me that Oswald and Kula can reflect the boomerang. Still think that Iori murders him tho.
b+C> Super works fer sure. Damage is a bit meh tho. 25-30%-ish.
I don't think he's a terrible a first character because that boomerang is the best spoiling attack in the game. Sure you don't charge meter that fast, but your opponent can't either. Specially those who start with Gato. Like Terry, he's the kinda first character that's great for pissing people off before your rushdown characters come in and mop up.
If you're on the ground when the boomerang returns to you, there's a split second recovery animation as he grabs the boomerang out of the air. Avoid this situation like the plague.
Air d.C isn't all that safe against blocked opponents if you hit them at head level. Kula can stand C you on you landing =\
Stand B is great anti-hop. Very reminiscent of Andy's. Really need to find out if he has an all-juggle move he can whore after it. Multi-rang?
Jump D and CD aren't all that horrible, pretty decent air to air. Jump C is good (like all jump Cs in the game, it seems), is good air to ground and decent air to air. Jump B has a huge hitbox but little block/hit stun, like Larf's. But in the end of the day, why are you hopping in the first place? Its like rushing down with Dhalsim in MvC2.
I think he's a potential anti-KGO since he plays the game on a whole different tempo and distance. Please don't tell me that Oswald and Kula can reflect the boomerang. Still think that Iori murders him tho.
- Slapper Joe
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He actually does really, really bad against Kula. The other two still have a pretty big advantages on him but not an absolute free win like Kula has (I can't see an anti-hop kick stopping this either.) That other boss is anti-KGO though, and ironically Syo has ended up being his counter character (b+Cing stomp, Liu Kang kick, j.D and close C is great fun.)
I use him first a lot, but he always does better coming in on (or close to) a one on one situation.
The air rush seems safer when started near the top of screen (so basically the last hits are not just floating above ground and actually have downward momentum.) Might just be me though.
I use him first a lot, but he always does better coming in on (or close to) a one on one situation.
The air rush seems safer when started near the top of screen (so basically the last hits are not just floating above ground and actually have downward momentum.) Might just be me though.