Kyo (XI)

Strats, combos, technical discussion.
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Post by ~!T.T!~ » Fri Apr 21, 2006 15:27

actually, a lot of times a good corner pressure kyo doesn't spam stand c, qcf DD.....that goes without saying, since most of his standing c combos in the corner you can just block the c and roll the rest....meh

but then again, with that uber hop B and omgwtfcrossup generic throw, he does still have a lot to play with




and to those of you saying that ngbc kyo would be broken in XI, remember he still has the same problems as XI kyo, perhaps more due to the system

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Post by Iie-Kyo » Fri Apr 21, 2006 20:16

Shirakani: Your info sources either are smoking some good shit, or the PS2 porters themselves are smoking some good shit.
-Defuser- wrote:Nah,Due to the Damage scaling in XI and the physics ,There no need to nerf EX kyo,he is basically XI kyo without yamibarai but with new moves that do pitiful DMG,gurantee there will be no gold mode aura after his mushiki.But im interested how he is able to DC into his mushiki...
The damage scaling's gonna hurt NGBC Kyo, yes, but it's not like it doesn't count against XI Kyo anyway. I get a feeling his Mu Shiki will be an LDM and will be DCable off his Shinken. Moreover, if they want to be ghey about it (look at the Unholy Three), they'll give the Mu Shiki the juggle anywhere property, meaning if you manage to nail someone with the Shinken, the pillar of flame will hit them no matter what and they'll eat ALL the followup hits (similar to 2k3's Mu Shiki).
EDIT: Most likely he can't do 3 Dp+A either...
If damage scaling is gonna hurt NGBC Kyo, he should have this option. Certain characters can do certain special moves after the opponent is knocked up - NGBC Kyo should not be an exception.
EDIT 2:As for that godly high priority Air R.E.D Kick,hmmm he needs that if he wants to keep up high in the A ranks.
Air R.E.D. Kick is what will make or break NGBC Kyo in XI. If he can do it off hops, OMG it'd be messed up. He'll basically be able to control his landing speed at will with the air R.E.D. Kick, since it lands much faster a hop in B.
EDIT 3:But if SNKP are lazy so they didn't nerf...I can imagine the tag combo for XI Kyo and EX Kyo: J.D, C, F+B , Qcf C , Qcf C, Qcf A, Qcf K, HCB C, HCB D, Dp A x 3 quick Shift DP C SC Qcf Qcf C. <= if there is a option to have unlimited skill stocks,throw a DC Kamikura = Godly tag 100% combo lol.
dp + C does not have the juggle anywhere property, I believe. But I imagine you can do some majorly messed up things if you can somehow take advantage of NGBC Kyo's max mode:

j B, s C, f + B qcf + A, qcf + C x n, switch in XI Kyo, j D, std C, f + B, qcf + C, hcb + C, switch in NGBC Kyo, j D, std C, qcf + D, D, hcb + B, Mu Shiki (provided the Mu Shiki gets the "juggle anywhere" property)
Oh man Think of the possibilties with this guy = Endless experiomental fun :LOL:
Three freakin Kyos in one KoF. Shades of KoF '99!

TT: That's one of the problems I've been having. The lower level players here like rolling like mad, even if it leads to them getting chiyowned. That being said, if I get them into the corner, after a std C, qcf + A pressure string, they sometimes end up waking up and try to roll frantically out of any followups. Sometimes I see this, stop, and hit confirm two dwn As into the standard Dokugami chain, but sometimes they do it so randomly that I whiff random pressure strings cos of it. Advanced players also seem to be pretty smart against this, so I'm wondering what *are* his most viable corner pressure strings, or is it more or less mixing it up with his normals and occasionally tossing in a special for variety?

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Post by ~!T.T!~ » Sat Apr 22, 2006 03:12

basically, if you're referring to stand c corner pressure, i'd say dokugami from stand c, forward b is still the best simply because you put out less risk than stand c, qcf DD, but then again, i'd still rather mixup hop b as well as crouching b, stand c etc. and crouching b, crouching a, etc.

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Post by Shirakani » Sat Apr 22, 2006 14:51

Iie-Kyo: My sources are....the SNKP official KOF XI page, the extras are 100% confirmed and no more room for argument. They even released a video.

And, it's not so much the damage scaling, it's the OMFG BORKEN priorities that NGBC Kyo has. If you want to use him for crazy comboing then sure, it'll be pretty ok due to the scaling. But i can already picture ppl abusing the air RED kick as a universal stuff all.

Tho, the vid on SNKP's site also says there will be an Arrange mode where everyone gets rebalanced, so meh, who knows. The tier lists as they stand will officially be invalid in that mode.

What interests me more is that they say EX versions of EXISTING chars will also be put in. Shades of KOF98?? Either way i'm DAMN interested in this.

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Post by Shirakani » Sat Apr 22, 2006 15:12

Iie-Kyo wrote:
EDIT 2:As for that godly high priority Air R.E.D Kick,hmmm he needs that if he wants to keep up high in the A ranks.
Air R.E.D. Kick is what will make or break NGBC Kyo in XI. If he can do it off hops, OMG it'd be messed up. He'll basically be able to control his landing speed at will with the air R.E.D. Kick, since it lands much faster a hop in B.
I seriously HOPE that the 7 Extras and the rebalance for the Arrange mode is done well enough to actually ELIMINATE the S tier, and have everyone on A and B, that would be ideal.

But.....looking at how they did SvC chars into 2k2, i hold practically no hope for a rebalance...You're right in that the air RED kick is what is going to make or break NGBC Kyo. The RED kick in general already has high priority, but if it can be TK'd off a hop...anyone remember Seth 2k? abusing those air diving kicks? Yeah....that... If they don't properly rebalance it then i don't think you're going to need any huge combos with this ver of Kyo, just 'pick your one move' and abuse it all to hell, one hit wonder ftw.

I also don't think the Mu Shiki will be the way it is in NGBC. I personally don't want to see ANY of the freecancel system in XI. XI is a very solid game w/o it and it doesn't need to exist anymore. Just have em make the Mu Shiki like it was in 2k3 and that'll be enough for me.
TT: That's one of the problems I've been having. The lower level players here like rolling like mad, even if it leads to them getting chiyowned. That being said, if I get them into the corner, after a std C, qcf + A pressure string, they sometimes end up waking up and try to roll frantically out of any followups. Sometimes I see this, stop, and hit confirm two dwn As into the standard Dokugami chain, but sometimes they do it so randomly that I whiff random pressure strings cos of it. Advanced players also seem to be pretty smart against this, so I'm wondering what *are* his most viable corner pressure strings, or is it more or less mixing it up with his normals and occasionally tossing in a special for variety?
n00bs always roll from my experience. Take like one game to adapt to their style, then pressure and LET em roll, and combo off a crouch B as they come out of the roll, that's what I do. I don't use the Dokugami when blocked tho, i only use it when it's definetly going to hit, meaning the dB dA df+D has already hit.

As far as *WHAT* the pressure chains are....personally i mix up the Aragami followups w/ random delays, and throw in a few empty dB's here and there. Occasionaly vertical hop and throw a d+C or D, if it catches em trying to jump, all good, if blocked, stand C into Aragami chains and delay the followups. Just...don't expect to HIT them is all i can say, aim to keep em in there as long as possible and they'll make a msitake eventually.

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Post by SonicTempest » Sat Apr 22, 2006 15:42

Shirakani wrote: What interests me more is that they say EX versions of EXISTING chars will also be put in. Shades of KOF98?? Either way i'm DAMN interested in this.
That's a mistranslation. When they say "EX Characters" in the trailer they're referring ONLY to the 9 console extras.

To be specific, the trailer says "Clear the missions in challenge mode and unlock the extra characters!" when "EX kyara wo kaihou seyo!" appears on the screen.

Just clearing that up.

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Post by -Defuser- » Sat Apr 22, 2006 16:22

Shirakani wrote: I also don't think the Mu Shiki will be the way it is in NGBC. I personally don't want to see ANY of the freecancel system in XI. XI is a very solid game w/o it and it doesn't need to exist anymore. Just have em make the Mu Shiki like it was in 2k3 and that'll be enough for me.
that worries me a bit because of the damage scaling XI,i don't want a Mushiki that does damage the same as the kamukura when it comes to combos and standalone LDM,i want it to to be same to be oswald's joker where it doesn't suffer much dmg scaling.On second thought,it maybe to too much because opponents would shout OMGWTFBBQ at 100% combo lol if the LDM doesn't suffer DMG scaling.

So basically SNKP has 3 types of Mushiki to pick from if my noobie memory serves me correct from all those kof years playing...

97 => 2002 - Fast and deadly but no/little juggling properties
2003 - Slower abit but has juggling property
NGBC - Normal Five dokugami punches DM but has a optional Max mode activation.

Blah i think we better start a NGBC Kyo (XI) thread,i don't feel like discussing NGBC Kyo cause his chians and moves are different than XI Kyo..

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Post by Shirakani » Sun Apr 23, 2006 08:44

ShadowSonic wrote:
Shirakani wrote: What interests me more is that they say EX versions of EXISTING chars will also be put in. Shades of KOF98?? Either way i'm DAMN interested in this.
That's a mistranslation. When they say "EX Characters" in the trailer they're referring ONLY to the 9 console extras.

To be specific, the trailer says "Clear the missions in challenge mode and unlock the extra characters!" when "EX kyara wo kaihou seyo!" appears on the screen.

Just clearing that up.
Ah ok, thanks. Bleh, had my hopes up for a moment there...

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Post by Shirakani » Sun Apr 23, 2006 08:47

-Defuser- wrote:
Shirakani wrote: I also don't think the Mu Shiki will be the way it is in NGBC. I personally don't want to see ANY of the freecancel system in XI. XI is a very solid game w/o it and it doesn't need to exist anymore. Just have em make the Mu Shiki like it was in 2k3 and that'll be enough for me.
that worries me a bit because of the damage scaling XI,i don't want a Mushiki that does damage the same as the kamukura when it comes to combos and standalone LDM,i want it to to be same to be oswald's joker where it doesn't suffer much dmg scaling.On second thought,it maybe to too much because opponents would shout OMGWTFBBQ at 100% combo lol if the LDM doesn't suffer DMG scaling.

So basically SNKP has 3 types of Mushiki to pick from if my noobie memory serves me correct from all those kof years playing...

97 => 2002 - Fast and deadly but no/little juggling properties
2003 - Slower abit but has juggling property
NGBC - Normal Five dokugami punches DM but has a optional Max mode activation.

Blah i think we better start a NGBC Kyo (XI) thread,i don't feel like discussing NGBC Kyo cause his chians and moves are different than XI Kyo..
We should...to the new thread that is.

About Oswald's LDM tho, i have a feeling that after it goes thru Arrange mode, it WILL suffer from scaling. Either that or other characters may be powered UP compensate, could mean that the Kamikura is removed from scaling.

That vid showed Duck get increased range on his break spiral grab, and since WHEN did Duck need an upgrade?...If they're beefing up already powerful chars, all bets are off as to what will happen really. But, rebalance is always good. I still hold hope that the S tier will be completely abolished and everyone will exist on A and B, which is pretty good balance.

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Post by Iie-Kyo » Sun May 28, 2006 13:39

Three things I learned, too lazy to check the rest of this thread cos it's so hueg liek xbox.

You can now scrub the Orochinagi off the D version 75 Shiki Kai (qcf + D, D) agen. i.e., hit with the Shiki Kai, then just do the Orochinagi with either button. It'll juggle without you having to "hold" it like in 2k3.

The Orochinagi still has the "hold it then release after DM spark" feature to make it faster. This is good to counter anticipated hops from far away.

The first hit of the df + D can be cancelled into a special without having to be cancelled from a normal.

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Post by Perfect Stranger » Wed Aug 23, 2006 18:06

Some small tidbits from messing around in Practice Mode (Alright, alright, this is more because I'm bored):

qcf x 2 p is QSable. More importantly:

-Opponent can still be juggled while he's still rising after being hit. Think qcf b,b, kinda, or after a jump E counter hit.

-The move can be QS morphthroughed.

Orochinagi versions still have invulnerability like always when held : a version has lower invulnerability, and c version has upper invulnerability. Or was it the other way around?

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Post by Iie-Kyo » Wed Nov 08, 2006 20:54

d. B, std C, LDM works.

d. B, std C, qcf + D, D works. This never worked in any of the older KoFs...

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Post by Derrace » Thu Nov 09, 2006 01:46

Iie-Kyo wrote:
d. B, std C, qcf + D, D works. This never worked in any of the older KoFs...

hello.. I am pretty sure that chain worked for kyo in '95.

=)

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Post by Kain » Wed Nov 22, 2006 17:48

Iie-Kyo wrote:The first hit of the df + D can be cancelled into a special without having to be cancelled from a normal.
Mmh, I didn't understand what you mean with that. Could you please explain? :oops:

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Post by Makashi_Menace » Wed Nov 22, 2006 18:32

Kain wrote:
Iie-Kyo wrote:The first hit of the df + D can be cancelled into a special without having to be cancelled from a normal.
Mmh, I didn't understand what you mean with that. Could you please explain? :oops:
That means you can just perform Df + D directly into anything (Qcf C, Qcb C etc), without needing to add anything in front.

Example: Stand C -> Df D -> Qcf C works. However, if you don't do the Stand C, and you just do Df D -> Qcf C (without the Stand C in front) and it still works.

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