Archived KOFXI news

Kyosuke Kagami · Post by **Kyosuke Kagami** » Wed May 18, 2005 16:03

When there was a Draw, 3 girls (the judges) would come out of nowhere and choose who was the player that played better (yeah, no more Draw Games), and that player will be declared the winner of the round.

... well, KOF XI's judgement idea is similar

Moriya · Post by **Moriya** » Wed May 18, 2005 17:04

Empyrian wrote:
New judgment system for time-outs. The usual timer on the top of the screen keeps tilting towards (what the game judges as) the player that's fighting more skillfully during the match. If the match ends with a time over, the person that the timer is tilted towards will win. It's not decision by remaining life any more.

Skill Meter System. its on top of the usual power meter, there's an additional new bar called the "skill meter". It's used to pull off a number of systems. The skill meter builds up on its own as time passes by. you can stock up to 2 skill meters. The match starts out with the skill meter full.
Now are the skills in the above 2 paragraphs the same? Or are they different?
Besides, switching to defensive when you are in a lead is a very viable option/strategy. Unless you absolutely adore the Zerg's way of life of "rush and rush."

Moriya: Saving Shift is shaping up to be potentially unfair because;
A+C / B+D while getting attacked - Saving Shift (Changes to partner, requires 2 Skill stocks)

You start with 2 skill stocks which do not deplete if you don't use them. Someone touches you ( it could mean getting hit or getting attacked while blocking from what I intrepret.) You tag in someone who is high damage (leader?)

We also don't know how the SKill meter works. Auto refill like Max 2 in NW? Can it be filled faster when you do special moves? If so, if you are using characters like Kim, Iori with multiple hit moves which charges gauge quickly. it is pretty deadly.

So is it a move that benefits the offensive party yet ironically kills the first person to go on the offensive at the begining of the round?

From what's been reported, it fills automatically. Nothing has been said about it filling up faster if you use special moves - and I think that's not gonna be the case, since the power bar already does that.

Also, from what's been reported, you can use the Saving Shift when blocking.

I don't know, I can't really say if it's gonna be unfair since I haven't seen it in action yet... but on paper it doesn't really sound unfair to me. Sure, it could be used to punish the player who goes on the offensive first, but after that it will surely take a while before the skill bars are full again. Meanwhile, the other player will also have the chance to punish his opponent - maybe he can even pull out a couple of Super Cancels/Dream Cancels, surely dealing even more damage than just a tag attack. I don't know, I'm just speculating, we're gonna have to wait and see.

But I love when things change. New systems, even if broken, at least show that the company is not interested in making more of the same; it's trying something new and refreshing. Even if it's broken, it could still be fixed on the next game (or even if this one, considering the amount of loke tests SNKP has been having lately).

nothingxs · Post by **nothingxs** » Thu May 19, 2005 00:15

Saving Shift, I believe, is meant to work very much like the Burst system in Guilty Gear XX. Also, I believe skill stock is supposed to replenish slowly, albeit somewhat faster than the Burst gauge in GGXX.

Saving Shift literally is anti-infinite protection. I wouldn't just randomly use it, I'd save it for when someone's about to land a huge fucking string on my ass that will annihilate my lifebar.

It also potentially means you can try and bait Saving Shifts, so as to make your opponent waste their skill stocks.

The system sounds viable and interesting. I'm waiting to see how it works. If your opponent is lodged in some form of freezed animation when you do the Saving Shift, then I'm not sure I like it. If your opponent's animation continues as normal after a flash, as with guard cancel evacuations and guard cancel front steps, then I am officially a fan, because then it can be baited, and KOF is in serious need of extra mindgames.

Can't wait for people to stop their strings midway to bait a Saving Shift and then late cancelling into super to rape the new guy, or even counter-shifting mid-combo for one skill stock to rape an opponent.

Let's hope SNK takes out that judgment bullshit, anyways. Unless it's done for ties and ties only, I will never, EVER accept it. I'm okay with it dealing with ties and perhaps Double KOs. Otherwise... no. It needs to get the fuck out. Again, the computer arbitrarily determining a way to judge who has more skill through some equation means that it will end up getting abused as fuck, and that will make for a retarded as hell game. This system literally has no way to become anywhere near balanced or not retarded. Think about the implications so you understand what I mean.

Fat Cat Lim · Post by **Fat Cat Lim** » Thu May 19, 2005 04:08

I don't think it's fair to already put down a system that has yet to be extensively tested (let alone condemned by the majority of the players). After all, other games have different systems of determining winners not only from draws (such as ring outs), and the judgement system of SF:3S. Even to this day, I'm not entirely sure how it exactly works. But I'm not questioning it since I haven't seen much complaints about it. Sure, draws are extremely rare but in either case, one could argue that it is an arbitrary system that evaluates behind the scene as well.

Interesting stuff from supposedly the SNKP LJ. Taken from http://forums.insertcredit.com/viewtopi ... 3&start=51

[quote="beto"]Been talking to someone who's relaying things from someone else who was at the beta test and here's the findings:
Duck King and Takuma are out. Takuma is more than likely completely retired and may end up in a dream match somewhere down the line.

Kyo> ugh
Kyo> UGH
Kyo> Oswald was cool until i found this out
> what? oswald is a pedo too?
Kyo> +(saranaru2k45): OSWALDâ€šÃŒâ€šÃ™â€šÂ¤â€šÂ©

Post by **SonicTempest** » Thu May 19, 2005 04:26

Yeah, it does sound very cool. The voiceacting being improved is also nice to hear.

However, what's most gratifying is to hear that they're not rushing this one, and taking time to make changes as necessary. Good one on you, SNKP.

Moriya · Post by **Moriya** » Thu May 19, 2005 04:27

Fat Cat Lim wrote:Personalised KOF screams and yells? I like the sound of that.

Yeah, I had read that at the Insert Credit forums too. But I didn't comment anything because, as cool as that sounds, it's probably not true for two simple reasons:
1) it hasn't been reported anywhere else, and
2) no one has reported seeing Iori in the loke but this guy.

Still, if this somehow turns out to be true, it'll be a really cool feature.

nothingxs · Post by **nothingxs** » Thu May 19, 2005 06:21

I don't think it's fair to already put down a system that has yet to be extensively tested (let alone condemned by the majority of the players). After all, other games have different systems of determining winners not only from draws (such as ring outs), and the judgement system of SF:3S. Even to this day, I'm not entirely sure how it exactly works. But I'm not questioning it since I haven't seen much complaints about it. Sure, draws are extremely rare but in either case, one could argue that it is an arbitrary system that evaluates behind the scene as well.

Maybe if it wasn't SOLELY for determining draws.

That's the reason why I'm sure SF3 doesn't do timeouts on judgment. Because the rating system is retarded. Judgment IS retarded. I've seen excellent players who often just get C-B grades, and some mediocre ones who often get A grades. Guess who would win by judgment in a case like that?

Fat Cat Lim · Post by **Fat Cat Lim** » Thu May 19, 2005 06:39

Like I said, it would not be fair to be so quick to condemn KOFXI Skill Judgement system, as it has yet to be fully tested and evaluated by the players. The SF3:3S Judgement System may be flawed, but is it fair to quickly project its own flaws upon another game's Judgement System? Even when it is still in the process of being tweaked and adjusted? For all you know, it could work very well once the game is released. And players so far has not complained about the system to merit it being 'broken'.

Empyrian · Post by **Empyrian** » Thu May 19, 2005 06:55

A point to note.

In maritial arts tournaments (I am thinking more in terms of TKD, Karate, Judo), there is a group of judges who will decide who wins...

I suppose one can argue that KOF is closer to Muay Thai and Boxing which emphasised more on KOing the opponent. (though they also have judges too.)

Interestingly, in most cases, the judges will award more points to the offensive party. Therefore, you can block, parry the offense but the judges will give more points to your opponent because he made more "contact" than you.

Besides, we can always go play NGBC.

Gojira · Post by **Gojira** » Thu May 19, 2005 09:22

I just hope to hell this judgement thing accounts for more than just combos because how is someone like Griffon supposed to get a 5+ hit combo off? His style isn't about that and neither are a lot of other characters.

Also having an invisible constant to gauge who will win after time is up is extremely risky. At least the pointer is there, but even so, not knowing what makes it move might end up frustrating a lot of people.

But then if matches are as long as they're saying maybe time overs won't occur much.

Sheba · Post by **Sheba** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:08

From what I read, at least they don't count ranbu as "combos", that would be utterly retarded.

Blastrezz · Post by **Blastrezz** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:52

Man, this all sounds EXTREMELY interesting.
Although over the years I've missed a lot of Beat'em-Up history so far it seems KoF is FINALLY having it's biggest change! Can anybody who played all the KoF sequels back in their times confirm my impression?

Also I hope they delay XI to the end of the year because NGBC seems to be due to release in June and people should be given time to play the Battle Coliseum first and see what it's like and not having to play two similar SNK games at the same time..... Because this could get frustrating as we all know.

The last thing that crosses my mind is this judgement system thing. I KNOW it's tooooo early to judge in any way BUT I just hope they dont flaw the system so much that the judgement gauge can be influenced by bugs or cheap tricks they oversee in their code.....

So far I'm excited once more with an upcoming SNK release but the hurts sVc put to me (after the biggest hype in years) I'm VERY careful about being too excited.

--Blast

nothingxs · Post by **nothingxs** » Thu May 19, 2005 17:01

Fat Cat Lim wrote:Like I said, it would not be fair to be so quick to condemn KOFXI Skill Judgement system, as it has yet to be fully tested and evaluated by the players. The SF3:3S Judgement System may be flawed, but is it fair to quickly project its own flaws upon another game's Judgement System?

Yes.

Even when it is still in the process of being tweaked and adjusted?

Yes.

For all you know, it could work very well once the game is released. And players so far has not complained about the system to merit it being 'broken'.

And on that point, it could also be a festering pile of shit of a system that greatly caters to a simple style of play and makes another worthless.

This kind of thing is called a precedent. The SF3 judgment system is completely ignored in actual high level play because everyone knows that the way it determines the winner is completely baseless and stupid. It's not as easy to manipulate because it's meant to rarely occur, but a time out is not exactly a rare occurence. Turtling and proper zoning is going to become impossible if the system measures combos as a measure of skill. And if it doesn't, then we're going to see some random people winning at random for random reasons.

Fat Cat Lim · Post by **Fat Cat Lim** » Thu May 19, 2005 17:56

Then I can only shake my head sadly at your refusal to even give the system a chance before it is even examined properly, considering that the system behind it will be programmed by different people from a different company.

We don't even know whether the system will lean towards combos or what not. Its details, as far as we know it, are sketchy to say the least during its unvealment in the short 2 day loke test. You're already dreaming up worst-case disaster scenarios that hasn't even happened, nor might not even happen.

Innocent until proven guilty. Have more of an open mind and let's see what further news that the future loke tests will bring us regarding this new Judgement System. If anything, I'll hand it to Playmore for trying something new, or at least daring to go against the status quo.

principal panda · Post by **principal panda** » Thu May 19, 2005 18:11

besides,if things don't work out with this system maybe in the final game snk
will put it as an option that can be turned on or to the default time-out system(winner is 1 with more health).