Oswald (XI)

[Iie-Kyo]

hmm, I still dont understand why it's banned in the competition anyway.

when I finish 1 of the opponents chars. I always try the following on the incoming chars:

Ralf: Hcf Kick
Clark: DM or LDM.
Malin: A, the yoyo goes out of the screen slightly with you standing infront of where the char would land, so when the opponent comes in, u do stand C and it's almost impossible to block. I havent seen any opponent get out of it when the yoyo is in the right position.
Ryo: Guard crash punch into rambu DM into LDM.

if u get your timing right on the following, there's nothing much you can do too.. even if you hold your joystick up b4 you come in.

likewise, there are cheese chars like gato that can do a guard crush to get his LDM to hit, Elizebeth's block damage LDM that you cant roll out of it....

IMO, I don't think Ozwald's "new combo" should be banned. You can only do it twice at most.....

If Oswald KO's one of your characters, you effectively lose a lot more than you normally would if any other character would KO you. You will essentially HAVE to CD counter or AB counter roll (therefore using the free stock you get from losing a character) to avoid eating a 40% or more combo. In other words, Oswald has a sole advantage over other characters upon KOing a character - no other character can do *exactly* what he can do. And from what I can tell through this thread's impressions, it doesn't seem terribly hard to do.

The other setups you mentioned are pretty much escapable and most importantly, don't require you using a stock to get out of it - it's an option, not a necessity.

- Your yo-yo thing can be blocked the right way, there's none of this SF3/GGXX unblockable bs here, I block in the direction I'm facing towards you, and I'll block both your std C and your yo-yo. Now if you're crossing me up, THAT is hard to block, but that's your skill messing me up, not something that is inherently broken in the game.
- Clark DM/LDM or Larf + K - basic throw mindgame - again, escapable, does not require a stock to do so, and is NOT a sure thing.
- Ryo's guard crush punch - this might be a bit tricky, but Ryo is rather underplayed (for every 123918935835 Oswalds, there is gonna be 1 Ryo), so IMO this is gonna be the last of your worries. Additionally, you have a chance of messing up the Guard Crush timing, since that thing is slow as molasses. You can't just spam the crush and hope it hits, like Oswald scrubs can now do with the + A.
- Elizabeth's LDM - it's block damage. This hardly compares to 40% unescapable free, guaranteed or your money back damage. Free cheese is only gonna matter if you're trying to take out a character who already had a sliver of life left (and IMO people should tag out so that they AREN'T placed in the situation in the first place).

In other words, Oswald's advantage after a KO is much much greater than any of the characters you mentioned. This is the reason why it's banned. They didn't even ban Duo Lon at the previous SBO for 2k3 - unless someone who's heading the thing is smoking some good stuff, they must have done the banning of the bug with a very good reason. And remember, this is a pretty damn big bug.

But this is gonna suck once my main arcade gets XI - Oswald is going to become THE ghey-ass-friendly character.

[Hane]

If you aren't playing the game, such knowledge serves no purpose.

What? Read what I said again, those that don't have the game. I would play it if I could .

[christensenray]

Is it possible to interrupt between the dfA and the next move with a hit maybe? Like a sA?

Plus, even though you've wasted a stock evading/countering the dfA, you HAVE put Oz at a disadvantage (you're either behind him, or he's grounded), thus making it kinda worth using the stock anyway. If this is done regularly enough, people might even stop using the bug.

But what's this about using it on wakeup?

[Derrace]

hmm, I still dont understand why it's banned in the competition anyway.

when I finish 1 of the opponents chars. I always try the following on the incoming chars:

Ralf: Hcf Kick
Clark: DM or LDM.
Malin: A, the yoyo goes out of the screen slightly with you standing infront of where the char would land, so when the opponent comes in, u do stand C and it's almost impossible to block. I havent seen any opponent get out of it when the yoyo is in the right position.
Ryo: Guard crash punch into rambu DM into LDM.

if u get your timing right on the following, there's nothing much you can do too.. even if you hold your joystick up b4 you come in.

likewise, there are cheese chars like gato that can do a guard crush to get his LDM to hit, Elizebeth's block damage LDM that you cant roll out of it....

IMO, I don't think Ozwald's "new combo" should be banned. You can only do it twice at most.....

If Oswald KO's one of your characters, you effectively lose a lot more than you normally would if any other character would KO you. You will essentially HAVE to CD counter or AB counter roll (therefore using the free stock you get from losing a character) to avoid eating a 40% or more combo. In other words, Oswald has a sole advantage over other characters upon KOing a character - no other character can do *exactly* what he can do. And from what I can tell through this thread's impressions, it doesn't seem terribly hard to do.

The other setups you mentioned are pretty much escapable and most importantly, don't require you using a stock to get out of it - it's an option, not a necessity.

- Your yo-yo thing can be blocked the right way, there's none of this SF3/GGXX unblockable bs here, I block in the direction I'm facing towards you, and I'll block both your std C and your yo-yo. Now if you're crossing me up, THAT is hard to block, but that's your skill messing me up, not something that is inherently broken in the game.
- Clark DM/LDM or Larf + K - basic throw mindgame - again, escapable, does not require a stock to do so, and is NOT a sure thing.
- Ryo's guard crush punch - this might be a bit tricky, but Ryo is rather underplayed (for every 123918935835 Oswalds, there is gonna be 1 Ryo), so IMO this is gonna be the last of your worries. Additionally, you have a chance of messing up the Guard Crush timing, since that thing is slow as molasses. You can't just spam the crush and hope it hits, like Oswald scrubs can now do with the + A.
- Elizabeth's LDM - it's block damage. This hardly compares to 40% unescapable free, guaranteed or your money back damage. Free cheese is only gonna matter if you're trying to take out a character who already had a sliver of life left (and IMO people should tag out so that they AREN'T placed in the situation in the first place).

In other words, Oswald's advantage after a KO is much much greater than any of the characters you mentioned. This is the reason why it's banned. They didn't even ban Duo Lon at the previous SBO for 2k3 - unless someone who's heading the thing is smoking some good stuff, they must have done the banning of the bug with a very good reason. And remember, this is a pretty damn big bug.

But this is gonna suck once my main arcade gets XI - Oswald is going to become THE ghey-ass-friendly character.

thanks for your input, just a few queries....

regarding malin, have you actually tried blocking the yoyo when you come in? by holding forward or backward? the stand C comes in later after the yoyo hits. when I said that, I wasn't meaning to make the opponent block from 2 sides...

sure Ryo's guard crush is harder to pull off, but it has been in the game for a few series, just like takuma's unblockable DM, but you can pull it off anywhere in the screen...yah I agree Ozwald's bug is way, way, WAY easier to do... but you can only do it that many times.. besides, you would need to finish the opponent in the corner (thank goodness!). So it's not totally unavoidable. Just stay out of the corner

I think you misread what I was saying with regards to Elizebeth's cheesy LDM.The idea behind this is to guard crush the person b4 landing the LDM, same with Gato's.....they do way too much damage. Free cheese is still chesse no matter how you put it.

Yah, they didnt ban Duolon in 2k3.....it's like saying, that character is too cheap, you cant use him in the tourney....there would always be cheap chars around... remember Choi's unblockable rush DM after his foward poke in '99?

Just my two tokens.

8)

[Iie-Kyo]

regarding malin, have you actually tried blocking the yoyo when you come in? by holding forward or backward? the stand C comes in later after the yoyo hits. when I said that, I wasn't meaning to make the opponent block from 2 sides...

I have. You land on the yoyo, and usually when I've been "KO-yoyo-'d" I was able to block it facing the right way (barring any corner traps or whatnot. Then the followup std C to ground me or to "trick" me, I dunno, it doesn't seem as tricky as it looks. Maybe the scrubs here weren't doing it properly or something, but in either case, this is still small potatoes compared to Oswald's break.

sure Ryo's guard crush is harder to pull off, but it has been in the game for a few series, just like takuma's unblockable DM, but you can pull it off anywhere in the screen...yah I agree Ozwald's bug is way, way, WAY easier to do... but you can only do it that many times.. besides, you would need to finish the opponent in the corner (thank goodness!). So it's not totally unavoidable. Just stay out of the corner

That's a pretty big if, considering Oswald is decent at getting you into the corner because of how his sprite forces you to get pushed back. At this point it's mostly theory fighter, but yeah - even though he can "only" do it two times, that pretty much means you'll take 40% damage or more each time your characters get KO'd, and considering how solid Oswald's game is (overpowered new character syndrome) there WILL be a time where he'll be the one to KO you, especially if you guess/defend wrong against his high low okizeme game.

Just put it this way, there's gonna be a lot more people switching in Oswald when one of your characters are almost out just because of the extra thing he can do. And only he can do it alone - yeah, that's what makes a character unique, but this is not the way I'd want a character to be "unique". Know what I mean? I'll see more Oswald 40% hit-after-character-KO combos than Ryo guard crush combos, only because the chances of screwing it up are much less, and the reward you get from getting it done right (and it doesn't seem too hard to do) is much greater with fewer button presses and more lax timing.

I think you misread what I was saying with regards to Elizebeth's cheesy LDM.The idea behind this is to guard crush the person b4 landing the LDM, same with Gato's.....they do way too much damage. Free cheese is still chesse no matter how you put it.

It's not necessarily free, it does cost you stock to do it. However, I do understand what you mean - it's relatively similar to doing Shingo's SDM x 2 + P into his + P DM in '98... costed 3 stocks, but I guess it was "free" damage. But thankfully Shingo wasn't a stock charger like his mentor was. But still, this isn't as comparable to totally free, no questions asked damage. And if you have an LDM, gg.

Yah, they didnt ban Duolon in 2k3.....it's like saying, that character is too cheap, you cant use him in the tourney....there would always be cheap chars around... remember Choi's unblockable rush DM after his foward poke in '99?

Yeah, but again, that didn't lead to 40% no-stock damage. And again, something like that was escapable and the nature of KoF '99's system made it somewhat impractical to do. You'll land that guard crush every once in awhile, but not enough for one to scream "omgnerf".

In terms of Duo Lon, IMO he's the crowning definition of what happens when a game is forced out the door with little to no beta testing done to see if characters are relatively balanced. It's not that he's cheap, but he kinda ruined 2k3 for a lot of players, only because he was the "pick him or you die" character, especially in the hands of an expert. He was a character that played the game for you, I was rather surprised that Duo Lon wasn't banned from tourney play, at least in SBO, only because he was just a playable flaw in KoF 2k3. :-(

Yeah I know I'm probably making a big deal out of an unblockable, but seriously, if it wasn't so easy to do and if it wasn't so damn damaging, and if the conditions weren't as relatively reasonable to meet, then I wouldn't have problems with it. Say like just being able to do a special move or something - but again, free damage is also free damage. And really, getting hit by this thing is gonna suck, .

[Perfect Stranger]

See some misconceptions flying around this thread as to the nature of this bug, and I'll admit that my post probably had much to do with that, since it was rather obscure

While I haven't personally tested the bug myself (OMG middle of nowhere for the lose ), the sources I've heard it from basically say that the bug is in the recovery frames of Oswald's dwnfwd a - they're unblockable. It's not that you can block it, and that any other moves you attempt to do become unblockable.

When a character is KOed, assuming you know the specific rules for KOF XI's incoming character placement, it is *very* possible to make them jump into the ending frames of the dwnfwd A. Same goes for a knocked-down character, except that I think the knocked-down character can roll out of the way. In any case, the Oswald player probably still has frame advantage.

*goes back to doing CS homework*

[Empyrian]

Is it dumb if a move is unblockable?

Is it dumb if a LDM combo takes off about 60% and a Qcf E finisher combo takes off around 40%?

No. What is dumb is after one of your characters got KOed, there is a 70-80% chance that you will lose the match. (and I am being very modest in giving the odds.)

[Derrace]

How do you do the followup move in the air that takes no meter and no skil stock after wall bounce combo? I been seeing it in a lot of vids latly someone help...

End Transmission

The chances of getting the last hit of /qcb E to connect are GREATLY increased when the combo is done using dnfw A as a starter. The whole idea is:
1) to allow the 2nd hit of A to connect while wiffing the 1st by juggling the opponent after dnfw A hits.
2) to juggle the opponent a little so that B hits him while he's just a little off the ground.
3) /QCB E should strike your opponent with Oswald directly below him.
4) With Oswald in the 1st player position, he should be a little to the right of the judgement gauge when he flies up after a E, it doesn't matter if you're a little off since the combo is alot more forgiving once you've satisfied the first 3 conditions.

This works after a jump attack as well, so you can do Jump A, dnfw A, 1 set E combo.
The QS version that many of you would have seen is
Dulon down A x 3, A, A, QS Oswald: Jump A, dnfw A, 1 set E combo. (approx 50% life).

hmm, which combo do you normally do after a Jump in (overlap/crossover)

[duolon_2005]

What is the (Oswald) combo that was used in the KOF XI release video that got over 60 hits?

[Iie-Kyo]

Is it dumb if a move is unblockable?

Yes, if the move wasn't originally intended to be unblockable. Larf's Galactica Phantom, grabs, etc. were meant to be unblockable. The + A wasn't.

Is it dumb if a LDM combo takes off about 60% and a Qcf E finisher combo takes off around 40%?

Yes. Don't forget this damage is almost free damage, since according to PS you can't even get out of it, period.

No. What is dumb is after one of your characters got KOed, there is a 70-80% chance that you will lose the match. (and I am being very modest in giving the odds.)

I also agree.

To elaborate and what Empyrian said, usually by the time Oswald has a chance to do this unblockable, your characters will already be pretty messed up. If they have below 40% life, that means the next one that's coming in is dead. This also means the one coming in AFTER that is also dead. In other words, he'd have done 80% worth of damage to you, for free, and you can't do squat about it. You might as well let go of the controls and let him do the combo on you.

SNKP: For the next KoF, get a bigger beta testing team. Plz.

[Scruffy]

hmm, which combo do you normally do after a Jump in (overlap/crossover)

Ahh that's gotta depend on where Oswald is after the crossup/overlap. There are exactly 3 different places where Oswald can land, and I always try to follow it up with an LDM in each of them

(i)Oswald crosses you up and lands in the center of the screen.
Down B, Down A, Qcb C, Qcf B, Qcf A, [super cancel] LDM

(ii)Oswald crosses you up, swaps sides with you and now has his back to the corner.

Down B, Down A, Qcb C, Qcf B, Qcf A(whiff), A, B, *Stand D, LDM.
([df A, B] can be done twice, but I normally do it once 'cause I can't get the timing for the 1st A right.
*Alternatively, one can also substitute the Stand D with his , A DM)

(iii)Oswald's jump C hits you in the back and he lands in front of you with your back to the corner.

Down B, Down A, Qcb C, Qcf B, *Qcb C [super cancel] LDM

(*after the wire hit, wait for the opponent to fly to the other side before doing Qcb C.
An interesting tidbit to note here would be Oswald's inability to supercancel into his LDM while he is approx. 1-2 character lengths away from his cornered opponent after a Qcb C, Qcf B, Qcf A chain).

[_KC_]

how about doing your combo no 1, without being SC...harder but it saves you that precious skill stock...

[Scruffy]

how about doing your combo no 1, without being SC...harder but it saves you that precious skill stock...

Annnnddd how would I go about doing that?

[~!T.T!~]

actually, its possible. Just position-dependent. I've seen it done about 6 body lengths away from the corner

[flipONE]

Enough about a banned bug for tourney's, if someone's being a douche bag at the arcade, just don't play him. It's just a game.

Also, a question, what are some of Oswalds invulnerability frames and what not, any auto guards?