Off topic, but I remember you from the old boards. Did you re-register since ON switched to this new board system? The old account records didn't carry over.Kane317 wrote:
{Damn, lost my old account somehow}
Ramon (XI)
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Incorrect. It does MORE damage if you add the inputs. I just tested this in XI PS2 in BOTH Arcade and Arrange mode (in fact, Ramon's extra throws in Arrange Mode does MORE damage than the Arcade Mode version - balance ftw).Kane317 wrote:So you're saying it's pointless to even bother do the extra inputs? But the oh-ah factor does so much psychological damage it's worth it
{Damn, lost my old account somehow}
But even if it did less damage, I'd do it for the psychological damage myself.
Oh yeah, for those of you who are confused about the inputs. This is actually one of those few times keyboard notation helps.
If you're facing right and you nail your opponent with the LDM, the inputs you do are easy:
214 + E for the first grab
214 + E for the second grab
63214 + E for the third grab
Simply reverse if you nail 'em with the LDM facing left: 236 + E, 236 + E, 41236 + E
Essentially the input if you look at it from a keyboard notation view is actually pretty much the same.
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{still off topic}Perfect Stranger wrote:
Off topic, but I remember you from the old boards. Did you re-register since ON switched to this new board system? The old account records didn't carry over.
Yeah, I remember all of you guys too. I dunno what name I've gone by, **-+=Daimon=+-** is one of them I think. I'm from the good ole days, back when Gunsmith used to go on kofmailing lists as well... speaking of which, I haven't really talked to him since I met up with him back in 2002 when I was still in London...is he still around?
{on topic}
Yeah, it's pretty much hcbx2+E LDM then: +E, +E, +E.Iie-Kyo wrote: Incorrect. It does MORE damage if you add the inputs. I just tested this in XI PS2 in BOTH Arcade and Arrange mode (in fact, Ramon's extra throws in Arrange Mode does MORE damage than the Arcade Mode version - balance ftw).
But even if it did less damage, I'd do it for the psychological damage myself.
Oh yeah, for those of you who are confused about the inputs. This is actually one of those few times keyboard notation helps.
If you're facing right and you nail your opponent with the LDM, the inputs you do are easy:
214 + E for the first grab
214 + E for the second grab
63214 + E for the third grab
Simply reverse if you nail 'em with the LDM facing left: 236 + E, 236 + E, 41236 + E
Essentially the input if you look at it from a keyboard notation view is actually pretty much the same.
The only one that the system is particular about is, the FIRST follow-up, the rest can be inputed any direction.
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Figured I'd add my Ramon findings that I haven't noticed yet in the thread.
After his Rolling Sobat chain, Ramon can buffer his +A (and possibly C) along with his Tiger Load.
So it's possible to follow up the dropkick after the dd+C pickup.
I don't currently have my PS2 at the moment to double-check this (friend is borrowing it to play Suikoden V) but I don't think you can free cancel his supers from an unbuffered +B anymore.
Also Ramon's specials have the nice quality if not being able to be Saving Shifted by the opponent, which helps him a lot with the extremely low damage he has this year.
His , +K losing much of its invincibility hurts his limited defense capabilities (it made for a great AA), so he has to rely on his Tiger Neck Chancery more than ever.
On one hand, I welcome the changes to the Tiger Load, but on the other I cringe.
Pluses over the 2k2 Tiger Load:
1. No more false-positive Tiger Loads (when Ramon would jump towards the wall, but not off of it).
2. More options, especially when the Tiger Load follow-up command was missed.
Minuses over the 2k2 Tiger Load:
1. Angles, ranges, and speed is fixed now. In 2k2 it would automatically vary depending on opponent's placement. Because of this, the unblockable +P follow-up isn't the be-all, end-all follow up it used to be, but it makes the other follow-ups viable options.
2. The cancel is much slower than it used to be. And no longer registers an overhead booty-bash hit.
3. The timing for the followup command is -incredibly- unforgiving. Especially if you're close to the wall.
4. Potentially has less priority than before.
Even with his animation / move property changes, Ramon could still be a good character if it wasn't for his low damage potential. He's literally beaten to death when it comes to damage scaling.
After his Rolling Sobat chain, Ramon can buffer his +A (and possibly C) along with his Tiger Load.
So it's possible to follow up the dropkick after the dd+C pickup.
I don't currently have my PS2 at the moment to double-check this (friend is borrowing it to play Suikoden V) but I don't think you can free cancel his supers from an unbuffered +B anymore.
Also Ramon's specials have the nice quality if not being able to be Saving Shifted by the opponent, which helps him a lot with the extremely low damage he has this year.
His , +K losing much of its invincibility hurts his limited defense capabilities (it made for a great AA), so he has to rely on his Tiger Neck Chancery more than ever.
On one hand, I welcome the changes to the Tiger Load, but on the other I cringe.
Pluses over the 2k2 Tiger Load:
1. No more false-positive Tiger Loads (when Ramon would jump towards the wall, but not off of it).
2. More options, especially when the Tiger Load follow-up command was missed.
Minuses over the 2k2 Tiger Load:
1. Angles, ranges, and speed is fixed now. In 2k2 it would automatically vary depending on opponent's placement. Because of this, the unblockable +P follow-up isn't the be-all, end-all follow up it used to be, but it makes the other follow-ups viable options.
2. The cancel is much slower than it used to be. And no longer registers an overhead booty-bash hit.
3. The timing for the followup command is -incredibly- unforgiving. Especially if you're close to the wall.
4. Potentially has less priority than before.
Even with his animation / move property changes, Ramon could still be a good character if it wasn't for his low damage potential. He's literally beaten to death when it comes to damage scaling.
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The only one solution to the strict timing required for his wall DM, is to pre-buffer it in his +K. Meaning, if Ramon's BACK is NEAR the wall:Ghostpilot wrote: Minuses over the 2k2 Tiger Load:
...
3. The timing for the followup command is -incredibly- unforgiving. Especially if you're close to the wall.
+K ==> +E should execute the DM automatically. Tested.
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Oh I didn't mean the DM, I meant the follow-ups to the special itself. All this talk of XI is really making me want to get my ps2 back...not that I have anyone here to play XI against anyway. :-(Kane317 wrote:The only one solution to the strict timing required for his wall DM, is to pre-buffer it in his +K. Meaning, if Ramon's BACK is NEAR the wall:Ghostpilot wrote: Minuses over the 2k2 Tiger Load:
...
3. The timing for the followup command is -incredibly- unforgiving. Especially if you're close to the wall.
+K ==> +E should execute the DM automatically. Tested.
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Apparently XI's hardest single character combo is this.
Jump C, (C, C)*3, C, b, A.
Ramon's frame data.
通常技
A,B(近、遠、屈)…全部5F
近C…6F 遠C…8F 屈C…7F
近D…8F 遠D…15F 屈D…13F
E…17F
特殊技
ヘッドバット…21F
低空ドロップキック…19F
必殺技
ローリングソバット B…18F D…25F
フェイントステップ A…18F
タイガーネックチャンスリー A,C…1F
サマーソルト B,D…10F
ロープ振り…9F
超必殺技
タイガースピン A,C…1F
エル・ディアブロ・アマリロ・ラモン B…8F D…10F
リーダー超必殺技
タイガーコンビネーション…1F
I can understand the part on normal moves, command moves and DMs moves but I need help in translating his special moves. XD
Normal moves.
A and B (close, far and crouching) = 5F.
Close C = 6F , Far C = 8F and Crouch C = 7F
Close D = 8F, Far D = 15F and Crouch D = 13F
E = 17F
F+A = 21F
Df B = 19F
Grab super = 1F. same goes for his LDM. (duh.)
Ranbu. B version = 8F, D version = 10F.
Jump C, (C, C)*3, C, b, A.
Ramon's frame data.
通常技
A,B(近、遠、屈)…全部5F
近C…6F 遠C…8F 屈C…7F
近D…8F 遠D…15F 屈D…13F
E…17F
特殊技
ヘッドバット…21F
低空ドロップキック…19F
必殺技
ローリングソバット B…18F D…25F
フェイントステップ A…18F
タイガーネックチャンスリー A,C…1F
サマーソルト B,D…10F
ロープ振り…9F
超必殺技
タイガースピン A,C…1F
エル・ディアブロ・アマリロ・ラモン B…8F D…10F
リーダー超必殺技
タイガーコンビネーション…1F
I can understand the part on normal moves, command moves and DMs moves but I need help in translating his special moves. XD
Normal moves.
A and B (close, far and crouching) = 5F.
Close C = 6F , Far C = 8F and Crouch C = 7F
Close D = 8F, Far D = 15F and Crouch D = 13F
E = 17F
F+A = 21F
Df B = 19F
Grab super = 1F. same goes for his LDM. (duh.)
Ranbu. B version = 8F, D version = 10F.
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Translated:
Empyrian wrote: Command Moves
Headbutt (f+A) …21F
Drop Kick (df+B) …19F
Special Moves
Rolling Sobat (dp+K) B…18F D…25F
Feint Step (QCB+A) A…18F
Tiger Neck Chancery (HCF+P) A,C…1F
Somersault (d,d+K) B,D…10F
Rope Throw (rdp+K?) …9F
DMs
Tiger Spin (HCBx2 + P) A,C…1F
El Diablo Amarillo Ramon (QCF,HCB+K) B…8F D…10F
LDM
Tiger Combination…1F