Official KOF XI rant/bash/spam/cry/rave/whine thread

[inuko]

AH KOF IZ SO KEWLZ.

Just kidding. I do have a rant though. My best friend is like, super-awesome It's tough to slam down a quarter for less than 30 seconds of game play. I admit, I get mad, I get frustrated, I get pissed with myself that I've hit a plateau and I just can't breakthrough to the next level. I yell at him and shove him around a bit (sometimes too roughly, sometimes not) but I love him and deep down, I'm proud of him and just want to be like him ;o;

But, it kind of sucks because he's known as the "cheap sub-boss guy" 'cause they can't handle his Adel. Some guy, who's good as well, refuses to play him and told him that to his face -.- I wish I had been there to yell back at him. I understand, but at the same time ~_~...just Damn, you know? It sucks, because all the regulars who play talk to and know each other, but he and I are ostracized from the group, save for maybe three, four people.

>_> Is it wrong that he has skill with Adel? Is that so "cheap"? 'Cause I know I've been able to bust through and get around it, getting wins despite my use of the widely disliked, little Japanese capoeira girl Momoko. :< I dunno, I'm just kind of sad (and so is he) that no one acknowledges us, really ~_~;; SIGH! :-(

[Slapper Joe]

You can't be cheap with Adel. Boring, predictable and dry, sure (though this is more the fault of the character.) But not cheap. Is probably more due to that than anything.

[Iie-Kyo]

Adel's not cheap, but he is a bitch to play if you know his QS combos pretty well, but all you gotta do is play a good KGO and he gets smacked pretty badly. You're lucky you're only spending a quarter to play this game.

But I agree with Slapper here, Adelheid is kinda like Oswald in the sense - you know what to predict, but countering it and defending against it is the annoying part. However, unlike Oswald, Adelheid's offense isn't as bulletproof as a simple hop C, he can be stopped by a good number of the cast.

[inuko]

So this friend of mind is helping me work out the kinks in Maxima/Elizabeth's QS combo, right? So he's been using mmm...Maxima, Elizabeth and Gato? I Believe. So then that same guy plays him 3 times, loses 3 times, to this Elizabeth team. Later, my friend plays him, picks Adel. The guy loses, then tells him "oh, that's okay, it was a cheap win anyway." I'm just kind of apalled...at how dumb that is. -_- He lost "legitimately" three times to my friend, and yet the last one is a "cheap win." like, wtf.

[alexis]

Inuko, I remember when I first played this game in Osaka, all the Japanese guys thought they could get away with anything, but they definitely thought wrong.

This one guy lost all his players to my TIZOC. TIZOC, a character that according to Arcadia is nearly bottom-tier. He approached me and said something about bad in Japanese ("warui" was the only word I understood) but I didn't care. I knew how he played and knew how to counter his desperate attempts at anything (he only used the K/Maxima/Kula team).

I don't know if this guy thought I was cheap, but bottom line is if you're not able to move out of the way SOMEHOW, you're just not good enough. You have to use the game's resources to play! Saving shiftes, knockback attacks, etc. If you don't even try it, then you might as well let go of the joystick because this isn't KOF94. So people that think this is 1994 might see it's cheap to fight someone who's playing as a boss.

Apparently this guy who said your friend was cheap hasn't yet got his ass handed to him by a nice Oswald or Gato. My Gato ripped through walls in that arcade. People had to resort to actually also play as Gato to be able to rival me... but in the end since they abused his jump ins I easily countered with Jenet's Leader move and slapped the hell out of them with my shoe. In the game, I mean.

I hate people who blame cheapness to look like they know how to play, when in reality if a merely mid tier (at best) character like Adel gave him some sort of trouble... I can't think of a word to describe such a person.

Well... Kula CAN do amazing things now... like, for example...

jump in D (or D), C (1-hit), f+A, +A, juggle with +B, juggle with f+B, juggle with WHATEVER (Diamond Edge, MAX Diamond Edge, Freeze Execution LDM, Diamond Edge DC into Freeze Execution, MAX Diamond Edge DC into Freeze Execution).

ALL from not blocking a jump attack. OR, maybe the fact that LDMs can be hit against a juggled opponent after anything from a special move to a low punch kind of gives Kula another advantage when she can...

jump in D (or C), C (2-hit), +B, f+D, then...

a) A, LDM
b) C, LDM
c) Quick switch

Yes, she is just that good. I never dared to play with her. I played the arcade in Osaka when it first came out, for two months. I'm on a KOF XI low! June 22 is too far away! Oh wait, it's three weeks... still, it's 21 days (counting shipping about a week, which I doubt it will take that long with UPS since play-asia brought me NGBC in two or three days).

[I love kula]

no character is cheap...the only way a char is cheap is if it has an advantage that is out of place...like rugal in 2k2...that is cheap.

[alexis]

True, a lot of the stigma behing KGO comes because people abuse them beyond recognition.

I remember when KOF XI came out. The second week or so, after practicing in KOF2003, I decided to use Gato and was instantly drawn to him because of his mixups.

But do people even use his mixups? No, they DO abuse his jump attacks d+B x infinity and ,qcf+P. I am a decent Gato player, I must say. Maybe not as good as those who abuse his god-like priority more than they should... IMHO it takes away from the fun in the game.

While it can get you wins, abusing just certain attacks shows you know the character, but in my eyes it shows you have little skill. Adelheid players are few and far between... unless he just uses his +D, +D thing, I say he's OK.

It's like if every time an Oswald player landed an attack, to link the Ace into the combo would be possible but it just shows your inability to win without the Ace. It's like doing the same corner mixup until the opponent is dead. IMHO it shows a lot less skill than the user thinks it does.

[~!T.T!~]

but then again, it's the developers'/testers' fault for not correcting the overpowered aspects of the character in the first place. If you can abuse a handful of moves and yet win convincingly, many times it doesn't imply that the player is incessantly "cheap" by abusing that certain strat/combo/move. for example, gato has really good mixups from his B/D, yes, but like you said, abusing his uber priority gets you by with less effort and risk, and so the player would not be playing to his "best interests" if he did not use that.

[alexis]

Then again you have to ask yourself... does that really show any skill whatsoever?

Yes, it's the developers' fault for not correcting the abnormalities, but if you can just exploit one of these and win, what does that say of the player? That he's smart? A little, but it mostly says that they have no skill.

An Oswald player that is able to connect with the Ace every time shows that he practiced... but does it really mean anything in the end? Yes, it means that he can't win without it. This takes the fun out of playing. You're supposed to outsmart and outlast the opponent... not to abuse some overpowered move forever and hope to win.
I hope that the Arrange mode will correct the Ace by either:

1) Making it into a separate input and be a leader-only move
2) Making its damage be affected by damage scaling.
3) Making the +E cost a stock by itself, whether or not the Ace's final attack hits.

With any of these, I think the Ace bitching could stop. Because then, just a TAD more skill is involved. I think that if they HAD to address any of these, the second point would definitely be up there on the list. I am yet to see a single Oswald Ace combo in which the Ace's last hit had any noticeably-reduced damage due to scaling.

Yay rant.

[Empyrian]

I don't know if ypu guys think I have no skills or not. However, the bottom line is that if you're not able to move out of the way SOMEHOW, you're just not good enough. You have to use the game's resources to play! Saving shiftes, knockback attacks, etc. If you don't even try it, then you might as well let go of the joystick because this isn't KOF94. So people that think this is 1994 might see it's cheap to fight someone who's playing as a boss.

I hate people who goes on ranting about skill to look like they know how to play. I really can't think of a way to describe this kind of people.

[alexis]

I don't know if ypu guys think I have no skills or not. However, the bottom line is that if you're not able to move out of the way SOMEHOW, you're just not good enough. You have to use the game's resources to play! Saving shiftes, knockback attacks, etc. If you don't even try it, then you might as well let go of the joystick because this isn't KOF94. So people that think this is 1994 might see it's cheap to fight someone who's playing as a boss.

I hate people who goes on ranting about skill to look like they know how to play. I really can't think of a way to describe this kind of people.

It took me about a minute to realize you were paraphrasing me

The game provides many ways to escape, that's true. However, it does take some time to be able to do this (rolling isn't too good an escape route because of the extra-spammable low attacks). Saving shift takes both stocks, which means you have to survive for 30+ seconds. You might not even be able to get the first power bar to do a push back. Besides, the only thing you need in order to get owned by Oswald is to be hit once by anything and chained into a combo.

However, sometimes people DO have the choice of doing these techniques, yet they don't actually do them; maybe they're hard-headed or whatever...

Back to the topic of boss players, I don't mind someone playing as a boss against me. I see it as a challenge. Whereas playing the CPU's boss can get predictable, adding human intuition to a boss makes him especially hard to beat. I'd love to play a skilled Adel.

Skilled, mind you, does not mean just spamming the same combos. I want the whole package; cross-ups, quick switches, a well-placed LDM here and there...

Just because j.C, s.C, f+A, +P XX ,qcf+P works, doesn't mean it's all you can do. When I was in Osaka, the easiest opponents were the ones trying the same tired combo over and over.

[~!T.T!~]

Then again you have to ask yourself... does that really show any skill whatsoever?

Yes, it's the developers' fault for not correcting the abnormalities, but if you can just exploit one of these and win, what does that say of the player? That he's smart? A little, but it mostly says that they have no skill.

yes, it means he's smart because at the end of the day, he wins. Although you can argue that winning isnt everything etc., at the end of the day it's what really counts gameplay wise i suppose

[alexis]

But again, all it shows is that you're good doing that one spammable combo.

He may win, but if that's all the effort that's required of him, then the character is broken.

For example, what do you call a Haohmaru player in NGBC who only does far C? Smart? Yes. Is Haohmaru broken? Like the Berlin Wall.

Does that mean the person has skill? NO, it means the person knows the character only enough so he knows that repeating this one move/combo gives him an undeserved advantage, and willingly does it to get the win. Case in point, cheapness.

There are no cheap characters; but players that abuse broken characters have no choice but to be called cheap.

[SonicTempest]

This week's Dr NeoGeo update seems to indicate that Arrange mode features shorter hitstun for jump attacks, or maybe I'm just reading it wrong...

[Shirakani]

That's what i got out of it too. Hitstun from jump attacks shortened, and the invincibility time from rolling is also decreased.

I don't mind the former, but i dunno about the latter, meh....